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sbrguy

? about 45rpm and lvc stf

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guys with 45rpm i noticed when i tried on the jamons that the legs had a twist so to speak when you put them on, the outer side seam to the left leg twisted around till it was in the front of the leg, basically a 90 degree twist by the bottom of the leg

i was told that this is the case bc the threads twist when it shrinks and nothing you can do about it.. have you found this to be true on teh jamons tha tyou have?

also does this happen with the lvc stf after you wash them since they are non safornized jeans?

if this is the case it would be wise to wash them then wear them to get the wear lines since after a wash they will twish and the wear lines will be in teh wrong area.

thanks.

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I spent a few minutes searching for you, but I can not find it. There is a recent post somewhere that explains this. I think it was within "denim for dummies" which is pinned at the top of this forum.

It has something to do with the "twill", as I know broken twill will not twist and whether, as you mentioned, they are pre-shrunk.

As I said, if you are really curious, there is a good thread somewhere that I am sure you can find with enough patience.

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the lvc (circa '02-'03) twist a little, and the sugarcanes twist a lot. and each leg twists differently. doesn't really matter if you don't cuff them.

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yes i saw that posting about that, but wanted to see if i could get some input from people that have actually had experience with either jeans,

like you mentioned the sugarkanes will twist in the leg, so if you don't use a one wash or at least soak them to shrink them then the fading will be off when you wash them the first time...

i tried those jamon 45rpm on, i have to say they weren't really a high rise jean as some others have said, but they are no way low cut, they are exactly the same as say nudie regular ralfs as in rise, also they were a straightcut to almost tapered leg and very dark indigo to them. but the leg twist thing threw me off bc the side seam was on the front of my leg from the knee down, i said to the sales person "hey what is with this are these defects"

then they said no and explained it all.

just wondering if anyone has any experiendce with wearing these types of jeans in.

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i don't have lvc's but i do have several other pair of non-sanforized denim jeans

they all have leg twist

a friend was in town last week - he was wearing lvc's and i'm pretty sure those legs were twisted as well

i know it's mildly anecdotal but for our purposes it should be acceptable

also the people at 45rpm (i assume you went to one of the stores in nyc) know what they're talking about

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thanks for the input, my bad did't mean to say that you didn't know what you were talking about just sort of misunderstood.

for the person that has the jamons, so far are they wearing in nicely? i was told they won't have the real contrast as much as other jeans that they will stay dark longer, have you found this to be true? are you doing the standard raw treatmetn of wearing for months w/o washing or just washing every week and seeing what happens?

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yes, they're wearing in nicely

and no, they won't get the heavy contrast as the indigo is not coming off

at all

i'm washing very rarely and wearing them without regard for life or limb

they're good

probably the nicest i have (won't fully realize this for years of course)

buy them

the japanese denim-heads i know are most impressed by 45rpm

both denim quality and indigo

they also like the fades several years in

gotta be some justification for those prices, no?

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Leg twist is common, nothing to worry about, and happens with a lot - but not all - vintage jeans. It happens becuase with washing/shrinkage the fibres try and follow the direction of the weave - with left-hand denim, ie Lees, you would get leg twist in the other direction. Nowadays most jeans are preshrunk or preskewed so it doesn't happen.

Nearly all non preshrunk LEvi's, whether vintage or new, will do this to some extent, but some jeans will twist by as much as 90 degrees. I suspect some Japanese denim manufacturers consciously try to design this in to their fabric, so it gives a more vintage look.

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it seems that even sanforized jeans do this to some extent. i have a pair of late 70's orange tab 505 that have a bit of leg twist. the tag inside says shrinkage of 3%, wich i assume means sanforized, and explains why they arent twisted 90 degrees like unsanforized jeans.

denim is the new crack

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I have a pair of ai-hikos (which I think are what are now known as jomons) and sorohikos. Looks like the ai-hikos will not bleed at all - no indigo movement at all, doesn't rub off on hands. tees etc. Sorohikos are completely different in this respect - a lot of fading and contrast coming though after about 9 months (with 6 montsh heavy wear). The colour in the ai-hikos is beautiful though........

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It's called pre-skewing; not sure exactly how it works, I think they skew the fabric in the opposite direction to that in which it will skew with washing. From memory, it was introduced in the late 70s.

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asfberg,

thanks for the input, i like the color of the jamons and they fit well but wasn't sure if i wanted to drop taht cash for something that had a twisted leg to it, but like you said that is normal with all their jeans and is nothing special in a sense.

so that might make me get them bc i do like hte craftsmanship of them and the fact that the dark blue colr will stay that way.

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they won't stay dark blue forever but they won't crock and get whiskers as easy as most synthetic indigo jeans...they kind of just uniformally fade into lighter shades of blue with sometimes a hint of purple or green.

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i'd still like to know for sure if the jomons are suvin or zimbabwaen cotton...whoever goes to 45rpm next should ask...

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i got the impression from a friend in japan they are suvin like the umii ...

but he was talking about the charcoal jomon and the cotton on those feels and looks different to the indigo jomon

still someone should ask if they want to be more certain

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Guest Fade to Black

Would anyone happen to have a pic of the washed blue UMII Suvin cotton jeans from 45 RPM? That story about the jeans being replicated after firefighters uniforms in the old days sounds interesting, i'd like to see what these actually look like.

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the blue is really nice and deep from what i remember...i don't know if a picture would do it any justice. as for the style of the jean it looks (from what i remember) very much like the 1942 Buzz Rickson Lees with the teardrop pockets that are spaced alittle farther apart. i tried a pair on when i was at the upper east side store awhile back and i almost got the them instead of the jomons.

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Guest Fade to Black

It's that 'deepness' of the blue that I find so intriguing...what was the wash like? is it like the more minimal/subtle wash of the new sorahiko or is it closer to the vivid whiskering/fading on the older version of the sorahiko? Was there like a greenish tint in the faded areas?

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Leg twist is common, nothing to worry about, and happens with a lot - but not all - vintage jeans. It happens becuase with washing/shrinkage the fibres try and follow the direction of the weave - with left-hand denim, ie Lees, you would get leg twist in the other direction. Nowadays most jeans are preshrunk or preskewed so it doesn't happen.

Nearly all non preshrunk LEvi's, whether vintage or new, will do this to some extent, but some jeans will twist by as much as 90 degrees. I suspect some Japanese denim manufacturers consciously try to design this in to their fabric, so it gives a more vintage look.

That's correct.

Not only do they omit the pre-skew stage which would prevent leg twist, they can actively force the denim to twist by applying opposite-pre-skew. This guarantees that the legs will twist.

This stage is independent of sanforizing, so for example, you can make a sanforized pair of jeans that will still twist when washed. So you have the vague, confusing nature of the shrinkage controlled (and a tighter looking weave), but yet keep the charm of the twist.

The Japanese LVC '37's are an example of sanfor+twist.

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The Japanese LVC '37's are an example of sanfor+twist.

so you're saying the JPLVC 37s are sanforized?

do you have any idea why they would do that? originals were unsanforized correct?

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so you're saying the JPLVC 37s are sanforized?

do you have any idea why they would do that? originals were unsanforized correct?

Yes, the washed versions of the JP LVC37 were sanforized. Not sure about dry versions.

The reason to sanfor the jeans is that you control the shrinkage when applying vintage-style washing in an industrial laundry. So you can sidestep any problems with the whiskers moving around etc, yet keep the leg twist.

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Yes, the washed versions of the JP LVC37 were sanforized. Not sure about dry versions.

The reason to sanfor the jeans is that you control the shrinkage when applying vintage-style washing in an industrial laundry. So you can sidestep any problems with the whiskers moving around etc, yet keep the leg twist.

ah, that makes more sense. thanks.

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You're most welcome.

Now I'd be curious to see OPS (opposite pre-skew) applied to a broken twill.....

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