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2 hours ago, damagedroid said:

Okay, it seems like the production move to China for all the AW17 trousers, even including some jackets, is now certain.

only pants are moving production. everything else is made in canada

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frankie_fourInkinsurgent and matthewcng, I can't agree more with you.

I also own a lot of gears from mainline for mountaineering, and quality-wise, I'm also impressed with the consistent standard of those stuff that are manufactured in China, Vietnam or Indonesia. Although sometimes you can still clearly tell from some tiny details (e.g. cuff seam tapes, the stitching work around jacket hem or the neckline of a base layer, etc. These problems can especially be found on entry level products but overall, Arc'teryx has no doubt managed to set a really high bar on quality).

That being said, there are still 2 (as far as I know) mainline products that are still being built in Canada, the Alpha SV jacket and all the climbing harnesses. The design and build of harness is simply exceptional, awesome in gym and in field, and you can tell what kind of complex process it has been through during the production. Then there's Veilance, everything Canadian-made, like the garments are produced in an artisan workshop but in fact are from mass-production lines, only the scale is smaller. And you also have LEAF, which as far as I concern, are all initially Canadian-made (but some gears are made overseas now).

What I'm trying to point out is, aside from quality concern, there must be a reason that makes them decide to manufacture these things in house in Canada. And for whatever that reason is – be it confidential / proprietary production know-how or simply out of romance, they have essentially declared it's not important anymore for Veilance by moving partial production line to China. And this is what truly upsets me.

And thanks branespload, I actually got the information from a very nice Arc'teryx representative, but let's hope you're right.

Edited by damagedroid

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I don't necessarily have a problem with Veilance products being made in China as long as quality is maintained, but I would expect prices to come back down to reflect the much lower labor costs. Prices have almost doubled over the past 4-5 years and I think people will have an issue paying $2,000 for a made in China jacket.... 

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18 minutes ago, damagedroid said:

 And for whatever that reason is – be it confidential / proprietary production know-how or simply out of romance, they have essentially declared it's not important anymore for Veilance by moving partial production line to China. And this is what truly upsets me.

 

The most likely explanation for the initial decision to produce in vancouver is that veilance started as a highly experimental brand with a small volume, possibly under close observation by the higher-ups. As such, extremely short development cycles and "in our own backyard" processes can be prioritised over scalability.

Now that veilance is growing into a tremendous commercial success and confidence in their process is high, scalability becomes a greater concern and this is where you can decide to move (some or all) production to your bigger facilities. Also, moving production frees up vancouver resources which might be put to use to speed up or expand their developmental cycle, further benefiting the quality of the product.

I like the 'made in canada' tag as much as anyone, but rationally it might not always be the best way of doing things.  

 

 

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heads up to all Canadians or those willing to proxy thelasthunt.com has a few veilance pieces (galvanic is, graph, voronoi ar, node) at 40% off. Site is legit, I have ordered before. It is the warehouse sale stuff from altitude sports.

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Re. the production move to China, I just wonder which factory's going to produce these things. I know the guy who runs one China factory, very much focuses on promoting the high quality his workers have become able to produce thanks to the years of experience they have... and looking at some of the e.g. Black Yak things being produced there, they can hold their own to Veilance no problem.

Still, some of the allure will be gone, and coupled with prices remaining the same, that's a somewhat strange position. Only for the gearqueer, though. Too many people won't care either way.

(I'm taking bets on prices staying the same or rising. It's still a corporation that The Bird belongs to, and one that's very happy to see profits rise, no surprise.)

Continue to wonder about opening a boutique / buyer's club in and for central Europe, nonetheless. If only I had the money...

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Other than the sentiment, the only thing I care about if more pieces are being produced in China would be for some more reasonable pricing (it's already pretty outrageous what they're charging for MiCAN Veilance stuff). Doubt that will happen, unfortunately. 

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31 minutes ago, branespload said:

what a first post. good on u

was keen on the field shirts, I often checked the site last days . . .

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1 hour ago, szg said:

Continue to wonder about opening a boutique / buyer's club in and for central Europe

that would be great!

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35 minutes ago, jacktru said:

Other than the sentiment, the only thing I care about if more pieces are being produced in China would be for some more reasonable pricing (it's already pretty outrageous what they're charging for MiCAN Veilance stuff). Doubt that will happen, unfortunately. 

There's probably a better chance you'll find most of the stuff you want deeply discounted come sale time. If you really don't care where an item is manufactured then, this development really shouldn't concern you. (Generally speaking, not specific to quoted poster.)

Edited by shoreman

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21 minutes ago, shoreman said:

There's probably a better chance you'll find most of the stuff you want deeply discounted come sale time. If you really don't care where an item is manufactured then, this development really shouldn't concern you. (Generally speaking, not specific to quoted poster.)

this. there is a definite shift to larger retail coverage which in turn means more access to discounted items.

 

edit: holy fuck 575 eur for the field shirt

Edited by Inkinsurgent

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also lol at the amount of clone stamp tool the gfx artist did to the field shirt pics

 

blazer/voronoi in dark navy looks sweet. 

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Just wondering, I thought they are updating the design of the Nomin.

From the Veilance website, I still see the side handle and the inner construction seems to be the same as well.

The ash colourway does look nice, hope to check it out in person soon.

Screen Shot 2017-02-02 at 8.03.18 AM.png

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47 minutes ago, Xal said:

I think branespload was talking about the upcoming FW 17 when the changes were happening to the nomin pack.

I guess this is the last chance to get this iteration of nomin before the new one comes out.

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21 minutes ago, matthewcng said:

I guess this is the last chance to get this iteration of nomin before the new one comes out.

Yeah I love the side handle and vertical oriented organization pouches inside the bag. Works great when navigating through airports and on flights.

That being said, has anybody had any problems or faster-than-normal wear on the shoulder straps of their nomin, namely the top part of the shoulder strap where it attaches to the bag itself?

Edited by Xal
a word

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Is it just me, or do guys feel like having the apparat and the align pant in the same season is kinda redundant? They seem to have super similar designs minus the material change, cuff, and inseam length difference between the two and those changes don't really come off as very visual striking to me. I'll have to go see both in person to make up my mind, but at least from stock pics, they seem very close. I still kinda want both though, and i wish the apparat came in lithos instead of the align...

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nah i think they're different enough..

align pant comes in a sz 29, more of a straight leg, no articulation, no back pocket, and the cargo pocket rides way higher up (imo, more functional)

apparat is very slim, down to a 28, and has an articulated fit with an adjustable crop hem. aesthetically, it's much more techy and experimental to me IMO. also, the cargo pocket sits way down by the knee, which is a weird place to bear a load, so i don't like the cargo pocket as much.

ecomm photos dont really do them justice. hopefully stockists will have photos of the pants to better differentiate

edit: also, kinda interesting that the align pant gets redesigned same year as the conduct anorak drops, as the og anorak (deploy) and align pant came out together in ss11

Edited by branespload

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So, you just put in your notice and will be basically unemployed from mid-March. Veilance new season just dropped.

Do you

a. save every penny you can and resist the temptation?

b. at least get those Align pants that look pretty good (btw: not-cropped, cargo pocket similar, maybe, to Spec Pants': much different from Apparat, which I'd never want... wonder if the cotton/nylon material is improved from the Voronoi's old self-destruct material, though)?

c. f*ck it and also get the Field Overshirt, so you at least don't look like you have to beg (and have two pieces to review on video)?

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lol

 

The Align pant looks a lot more fitted than I thought it would. Then again, maybe the model went a size too small...

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19 hours ago, branespload said:

also, the cargo pocket sits way down by the knee, which is a weird place to bear a load, so i don't like the cargo pocket as much.

The cargo pocket only really works for keeping a phone in (in the mesh bit) because of exactly this.

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On 2017-02-01 at 4:23 PM, branespload said:

what a first post. good on u

Thoughts on the field over shirt as a light spring / summer "jacket".   Just purchased a small "ash" color and thinking it could be a shirt and jacket.    Although, I am trying to get my head around "uses = cold / wind / rain" and "air permeable".  

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2 hours ago, smarquis said:

Thoughts on the field over shirt as a light spring / summer "jacket".   Just purchased a small "ash" color and thinking it could be a shirt and jacket.    Although, I am trying to get my head around "uses = cold / wind / rain" and "air permeable".  

well firstly, i'd try to disregard the 'cold wind rain' labeling on the field shirt as it's most likely a typo. those pop up on the veilance site from time to time, it's even worse on other stockists spec sheets (like haven calling the conduct goretex pro, rather than cknit).

if i were to place the field overshirt into categories, i'd say mostly rain, then wind to an extent. but really, i'd expect arcteryx to market some SS pieces like this as "sun" or "heat" in the future. this shirt is neither waterproof nor intentionally wind resistant…

if you're looking to use it as a shirt jacket it will have some wind resistance, obviously more than if you wore nothing at all lol. but more importantly it does allow some air through, especially hot air from your core as you overheat.

to put it more simply, yeah, i think this would both look great and function well as a light 'jacket' for spring/summer (i made this observation in my video overview a few pages back). just dont expect it to be a serious windbreaker.

-------------switching topics right here------------

also, i got the conduct. it was pretty warm in nyc today, like 40 ish degrees, so i decided to give it a shot.

tbh, im not immediately in love with it. it might be that its just not as flattering on me because it's a bit long and i already have short legs so i prefer things to hit right at the waist/belt if possible. and it has more of an eggy look to it because of the kangaroo pockets and roomier body, where i prefer slimmer/trim fits like the arris. on me, the sleeves are a little long so i have to fold the cuffs inwards even with a layer under.

and yea, layering under it isn't as easy since it's a pullover. (note, it isnt designed to be layered over stuff anyway since it's more of a packable shell you pull over a teeshirt or something if you get caught in wind/rain in the warmer months) the side zips are kinda confusing at first, it's taking me some time to figure out to use my right hand to hold the hem straight while my left arm reaches cross body to pull the zips up or down. and then i have to be aware of which zipper i'm pulling depending on if i want to open from the top down to access the inner pocket, or from the bottom to the top to open the bottom button.

here's a sucky mirror pic lol. i went true to size

ftvFHla.jpg

Edited by branespload
re-formatted this mess of a post

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5 minutes ago, branespload said:

to put it more simply, yeah, i think this would both look great and function well as a light 'jacket' for spring/summer (i made this observation in my video overview a few pages back). just dont expect it to be a serious windbreaker.

 

Thanks branespload.  I went back to your video and noticed comment.  I really appreciate the video and the follow up.  The anorak looks great!!  How was the conduct in 40ish degrees?  Did you have a mid-layer?

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3 hours ago, shoreman said:

The Align pant looks a lot more fitted than I thought it would. Then again, maybe the model went a size too small...

ughhh sorry for double post, idk how to append quotes in my edit. but this is one thing i pointed out in my ss17 preview post from before:

On 12/19/2016 at 4:08 AM, branespload said:

redesigned align pant. veilance take on a cargo pant … fit is a straight leg but can still be very slim dpeending on how you size it. not nearly as articulated as something like the voronoi. fabric still a nyco blend, feels more rigid than voronoi AR, isogon material, but not as 'peach twill' or whatever the apparat is.

4 hours ago, szg said:

b. at least get those Align pants that look pretty good (wonder if the cotton/nylon material is improved from the Voronoi's old self-destruct material, though)?

@szgi think im wrong, i think the align pant is the same cotton used on the apparat according to the website specs, which is more robust and durable than the voronoi AR. (at least, from what i can tell by feeling my apparat vs my voronoi ars)

@smarquisi put it over a mionn IS comp, so thats like a 60gsm insulator. i think i'd be uncomfortable at 40F with slight wind in just a shell and tee.

Edited by branespload

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On February 2, 2017 at 10:29 AM, shifty said:

Is it just me, or do guys feel like having the apparat and the align pant in the same season is kinda redundant? They seem to have super similar designs minus the material change, cuff, and inseam length difference between the two and those changes don't really come off as very visual striking to me. I'll have to go see both in person to make up my mind, but at least from stock pics, they seem very close. I still kinda want both though, and i wish the apparat came in lithos instead of the align...

trying to decide between the align and apparat for summer, but still trying to get my head around the align 'cargo' pocket. from the veilance site, it seems to be a diagonal opening just slightly below and behind the side pockets, but then the last picture shows that you insert your hand backwards?

from the pocket opening seam picture, i thought it was a forward entry, making it a cargo pocket just below the regular side pockets.

but looking at the picture below with the hand half-in, it seems more like a re-designed back pocket?

 Align-Pant-Black-Pocket-Detail.jpg

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On 2/1/2017 at 6:29 PM, shifty said:

Is it just me, or do guys feel like having the apparat and the align pant in the same season is kinda redundant? They seem to have super similar designs minus the material change, cuff, and inseam length difference between the two and those changes don't really come off as very visual striking to me. I'll have to go see both in person to make up my mind, but at least from stock pics, they seem very close. I still kinda want both though, and i wish the apparat came in lithos instead of the align...

I think if you're going for going for visually striking veilance is not where you want to go! I love the pant, it's more lowkey than the apparat!

Edited by CARLOOA

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