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Sugar Cane Denim

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10 hours ago, Pedro said:

@julian-wolf

It was my understanding from google searches that SC denim blends have all been from actual Sugar Cane and not millet.

One example was Heddel’s:

https://www.heddels.com/2013/10/sugar-cane-co-jeans-short-sweet/

As mentioned above, I don't think actual sugar cane fibres are used for all that much, and when they are it's more like a rayon / viscose sorta deal. Heddels generally isn't all that trustworthy of a resource.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, julian-wolf said:

As mentioned above, I don't think actual sugar cane fibres are used for all that much, and when they are it's more like a rayon / viscose sorta deal. Heddels generally isn't all that trustworthy of a resource.

I would kindly disagree. That arricle mentioning Rayon/Viscose was simply one type of textile use discussed as a high volume “Natural” commercial alternative to environmentally damaging cotton; however, bagasse is a great fiber and works well when it has a carrier fiber such as cotton in the blend. Since Toyo started as a textile mill, this would be a creative endeavor and not cost-prohibitive.

If you look at the history of the varieties of SC in HI, they are all Cane and not Sorghum varieties. Sorghum’s presence in HI is quite recent and the focus is as a fuel feedstock and also because Sorghums recent resurgence as a gluten-free alternative for flour products. These are not sweet sorghums. 

I am not going to say that SC denim is actual cane because I simply do not know. Its a coin toss.

Edited by Pedro

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Posted (edited)

Japanese has distinct language for both Sugarcane and Sweet Sorghum. The Japanese advertisements for the 50/50 denim Okinawa and Hawaii both use the forms of Cane in their description “Shugākēn” but nothing that translates as a Sorghum crop. My position is that no conclusion can be drawn without additional investigation or definitive proof. But I certainly enjoy this aspect to SC over fit pics ;-)

 

Sugarcane: Shugākēn

シュガーケーン

 

Sugarcane: Satōkibi

サトウキビ   

Sweet Sorghum: Suītosorugamu 

スイートソルガム

 

Sorghum: Morokoshi

モロコシ

 

 

Sorghum: Morokoshi

モロコシ

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Pedro

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^ That all seems like good info, fair enough. Regarding the emergence of sorghum as a crop in Hawaii: how recent is "quite recent"? As far as I know, Nihon Menpu didn't start making any of their mixed-fibre denims until maybe around 2004 or so? At least that's when Sugar Cane started making their mixed-fibre jeans

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Posted (edited)

Cool video does not help answer the question of which is in SC denim but is informative all the same:

 

Edited by Pedro

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The reason I don’t want to believe its Sorghum is because the denim will lose some of its historical “cool” factor for me...Lol

I guess I am a “Sweet Millet Blend Denier” even after a convincing argument has been presented to the contrary...Lol

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I think I need to find that audio with Mr Kawai and we can find someone who'll check the translation?

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Just wait until you see my new Sugar Beet jeans - made in Norfolk! B)

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^^ Paul, that'd be great if you have it accessible—I'm not volunteering to translate, but if someone steps up and does so there's bound to be plenty of good info

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Posted (edited)

anybody got an active link for the okinawa X hawaii combo jeans with the mismatched legs and pockets? I was too slow to pull the trigger and my bookmarks are dead :(

edit: found the model number back in the thread, SC41701

looking around myself and gonna email PSA, but still open to help if anybody has a link!

Edited by Planetarium

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Another cool Button style.

 

63377F89-0A67-4EF7-8994-CB02AF06A1FE.png

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Does anyone have some Okinawa’s (50/50) with some good fading they can post photos of? And how long it took to get there.

Thanks

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These are mine after about a year of wear and washes about once a month or so. 

https://imgur.com/a/saItK

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@youngofthesoonest

Most excellent photos !

I am at 5 washes currently and I have also soaked them with the hose before I go motorcycling in 100*F heat. Your photos give me much encouragement to stick with these and not swap out for my SC41947. 

Incredible your red lacquer is still holding fast to the Cobra patch. All of mine has worn off but my scales are in tact since I treat with an Exotic Leather Conditioner.

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@MileHighEvertonian

Fantastic that at 3 years the denim has much integrity remaining. This indigo sure appears to hold to the fabric far more than Samurai.

Kudos on the clothes line and pins and that beautiful stitching on the blue quilt.

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Posted (edited)

@Pedro it's a more stubborn fabric at first but once you hit that cliff, it starts to fade a lot quicker. I saw a big difference half way through wearing.  I'm surprised that the patch stayed as good as it did. I don't condition it and I wash on cold or warm in the machine. It's also made a couple trips to the dryer. 

Edited by youngofthesoonest

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Oh my, you're letting them go after all this time. Hope they find a good new home!

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It was really a tough decision but I think they are better off at a new home ;)

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Posted (edited)

@Pedro My experience with the Okinawas has been a bit different, though these are the 40301 model (with synthetic indigo) so they’ll likely be faster fading than the natural indigo.

I’m quite sure these have only about 6 months of wear (3-5 times weekly), as I only started wearing them intensively this Feb/Mar. They struck me as pretty fast faders, with the first bits of contrast showing up in the initial couple weeks and some actual color change through the thighs, rear, and knees after only 2-3 months.

You can tell these photos are a bit overexposed by the patch on the back shot, but they look pretty true to the color in bright lighting.

LZghmHT_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&f

 

zIuef6T_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&f

Edited by FeloniousMonk
Fixing images

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@FeloniousMonk

Sweet Jesus those are beautiful.

The fade and the creasing is way more than my own Okies (40301) with similar time worn.

Can you describe wash/soak protocol and detergent used and whether you machine dry? Do you turn inside out? Were those raw or one wash? 

Man they are beautiful.

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I think I am wearing a size too large and the extra roominess is not properly stressing the denim.

I need to try a 34W next round.

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@Pedro thanks! They’re coming along really nicely, and I want to eventually get them to a very light fade for a comfy summer jean like some of the old pairs I’ve seen in this thread.

I did size down one (30 vs my usual 31), and even had a local tailor do a bit of tapering from mid-thigh down to match my favorite OA02 jeans - both of which probably help the fading and especially the slight honeycombs coming in. They still ended up looking like a quite normal fit though. Just took a quick fit shot in NYC’s current overcast evening, and the fades definitely look less extreme in this more normal light.

SivpXMQ_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&f

Since I want them to fade to an overall light color in time, they’ve been washed often. Typically handwashing every couple weeks in our tub with some normal detergent (whatever Tide was on sale) and light agitation, to preserve the patch (and between my partner and I, we usually have a few items to handwash that often anyway). Then I’ll leave them out to dry in direct sun, again to get the color lighter overall.

They’ve been through a few machine washes and drying cycles too, when I’m lazy or it’s convenient.

One cool detail, though it’s a bit difficult to photograph, is that the sashiko pockets have also faded quite a bit. Did just a bit of color and exposure tweaking to try and get it to show up more accurately in this shot...

A9WOFNh_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&f

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Oh yeah, and these were one wash to start. I almost always machine wash inside-out after learning that our spin cycle had a nasty habit of leaving crease marks (still not 100% at this, as too many of my jeans can attest), but when handwashing I tend to leave them normal-side-out.

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On 7/17/2019 at 9:22 AM, Pedro said:

I think I am wearing a size too large and the extra roominess is not properly stressing the denim.

I need to try a 34W next round.

@Pedro It doesn't really surprise me to see how different the speed and character of @FeloniousMonk's Oki fades are, which are really impressive and entirely unlike any of my pairs, Okis or otherwise. For one thing, I always fade slow, steady, and non-contrast-y in part because of my fit preferences, in part because 2 to 4-pair rotations are my norm. I also wear size 36 and to my eye the measurements of Okis, Hawaiis, and 47s really don't scale up all that precisely once you get into the bigger sizes. I could be wrong, but I think the bigger sizes just fit differently than, say, a 30 or 31 even without considering the dimensions of the individual wearing them. For what it's worth, indulging "extra roominess" and "not properly stressing the denim" has meant that I haven't had a blowout or even needed a crotch repair in 4+ years in any of my jeans.  :)

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Posted (edited)

@MileHighEvertonian

Very useful information on your own experience. I like the roominess of the 36W as well but I may try a 34W just to see what happens and to see what kind of stretch I can achieve.

I have found this Oki fabric can be manipulated when the fibers are still saturated from a long soak. I have actually stretched an extra 1” at the inseam from new and that has remained with no further effort.

Cheers

 

Edited by Pedro

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@FeloniousMonk

Excellent!

Thanks so much for the details and it was great to see the same denim in a different light (on the NYC rooftop).

 

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