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Atelier, Edwin & 45 answer


ringring

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john11f

posted: Sep 26, 2005 12:57 AM          msg. 29 of 32

Anyone know where I can buy Atelier LaDurance online? Do they make denim in relax/straight cut? It seems like most of their jeans are baggy.

Hej John

the 11 oz. DUNGAREE and 14 oz. FRONTIER PANTS are a relax / straight cut.

Note my previous posting.

Cheers

R

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It's just referring to the fact that your hand turns blue if you dip it in the dye.

Anyone can see it - no need for CSI to tell us where your hand has been. It's not as resistant as other colours, but I'm sure it doesn't just rinse away.

Quote: out damn spot
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Thanks Whiskey – I’ve always been fascinated by the history and mystique surrounding indigo dying.

It’s true that as a vat dye indigo is not as durable as some other dyes – in contrast, reactive dyes bond directly to the substrate, becoming part of the fabric… they’re much stronger than absorption dyes.

But Indigo is a dye nevertheless. Bluebeard the pirate supposedly dyed his beard with indigo, and the Yemeni Arab raiders had blue faces from the indigo-dyed cloth they used to protect themselves from the harsh desert wind. This is much like the link above, picturing a woman's indigo-dyed hands, or even like someone getting smurfed from their new raw denim. Kind of makes you wonder what the people that are hand-dying our high-end denim look like? I think this is a good example of how modern dying – although perhaps less desirable to the discriminating enthusiast – is safer and more humane.

In colonial times slaves stirred up the indigo vat by wading through it... often at gunpoint. But we’re certainly not there anymore fortunately...

Here’s a decent link to a (simplified) synthesis of indigo if anyone is interested:

http://www.abdn.ac.uk/chemistry/ex/cm01/jillian/indust.html

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Indigo is a vat dye.

The vat is alkaline which keeps the indigo in its solution form: leuco indigo, or indigo white. The yarns are dipped into the solution and then pulled out into the air. The moment the yarns leave the vat the indigo white is oxidized into true indigo, bringing out the characteristic deep colour. To keep the indigo in solution, the dye vats are kept covered when not in use. If indigo were painted on it would oxidize far quicker and be much harder (if not impossible) to dye evenly - at least as far as denim is concerned. It’s hard enough to dye consistently now - with all of our modern advances - let alone with just a brush!

As a polymer, indigo forms chains that wrap around the cellulose fibers in layers - there is little penetration when compared to reactive dyes that are chemically (covalent) bonded to the substrate fibers – thus becoming part of the fiber. Indigo, (as a vat dye) doesn’t chemically fuse with the yarns (cellulose), it only coats it. This gives indigo a comparatively low abrasion resistance – hence the beauty of fading indigo.

And as far as indigo lasting forever, only if it was left relatively unused. Indigo-dyed garments have been discovered in ancient tombs, along with other items for use in the afterlife…

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Well, it might not be permanent, but it would be pretty obvious for a while, especially with the 3000 year old H’mong people of China, who don’t get to shower as much as we do!

But then again it would also depend on the exposure. The slaves who trudged through colonial indigo vats day after day supposedly had more lasting effects; along with a far higher chance certain illnesses.

It a bit of a change of topic, but here's a link

http://www.prochemical.com/catalog/indigo.htm

to a chemical company that sells synthetic indigo. Lye can dissolve skin on contact – like Ed Norton’s hand in Fight Club. Just to give you an idea of how careful a more commercial indigo must be handled…

Edited by jdavis on Sep 29, 2005 at 07:38 PM

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Quote:

Well, it might not be permanent, but it would be pretty obvious for a while, especially with the 3000 year old H’mong people of China, who don’t get to shower as much as we do!

But then again it would also depend on the exposure. The slaves who trudged through colonial indigo vats day after day supposedly had more lasting effects; along with a far higher chance certain illnesses.

It a bit of a change of topic, but here's a link

http://www.prochemical.com/catalog/indigo.htm

to a chemical company that sells synthetic indigo. Lye can dissolve skin on contact – like Ed Norton’s hand in Fight Club. Just to give you an idea of how careful a more commercial indigo must be handled…

Edited by jdavis on Sep 29, 2005 at 07:38 PM

--- Original message by jdavis on Sep 29, 2005 07:28 PM

damn j,you should write an essay about this.
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  • 1 month later...

sorry for blowing the dust off this thread, but i just wanted to make sure of something. So the $333 45rpm uses synthetic indigo? does sugarcane use synthetic indigo? i tried translating the sugarcane website with google but it still didnt make any sense.

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The Greens and Nash are very similar. Redline selvedge, made in China (I think), trad cut. The Greenvilles have a more taped leg than the Nashvilles. The Rainbows are from Edwin's european collection. Different fabric, different cut and construction.

--- Original message by ringring on Oct 3, 2005 04:21 AM

I got some Nashvilles. They're made in Japan.
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