Samurai Jeans

[Mich]

Thanks Max, i'll post some this week, didn't have time to edit the rest for size and color adjustment yet.

[Jeanius1]

Thinking about getting some s5000vx's in the near future. This will be my first raw denim purchase so I'm kind of nervous about the fit since I won't be able to return (planning on buying from 2nd off rakuten unless better options are available). I don't like my jeans tight. If anything I prefer more of the hip hop look but nothing too baggy or sloppy. I wear size 34 in most jean brands including gap and hudson. Planning on staying true to size if I end up ordering. Is this a good idea? My main concern I guess with these is whether the leg opening will look good with sneakers since that's what I'll be wearing most of the time. I'll want some stacking, no cuff, and prefer the jean not to be hanging over the shoe. Is this look achievable? Any input is helpful. Thanks

 

 

[CJ23]

Can someone tell me if they make the 5000 cut in 19oz ? If not then have they ever done it before ? I'm looking for the 19oz denim with a leg opening around 8 inches and waist 16 or 16.5. Is this the cut I'm looking for ? Thanks.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

@Jeanius1: do you have a tape measure? use it and measure your favorite pair of jeans and then come back with the actual measurements rather than "I usually wear size 34". Because it can be quite surprising how much they could measure in reality.

 

@CJ23: Unless it was a obscure collaboration, I can't remember seeing the S5000 cut in 19oz denim. With a waist of 33", the S710 might even fit your bill of 8" leg opening. The other cut that is offered in 19oz denim would be the S510

[Max Power]

^You're looking for the 710. The 5000 only comes in 17 and 21 oz. The 710 in size 32-33 comes with the desired leg opening.

 

^^What do the jeans you own measure? The tagged size alone doesn't help here. I'm not sure if we can help much here, as most guys try to get their size without looking for a baggy fit.

[CJ23]

Between 32 and 33...... Have a pair of 666s in 32 but the thighs are a little bit too tight...... Max, which denim do you prefer out of the 17 and 21 ? Seems to me 19oz are superior to both but i am just going off pictures and not seeing the denim in person....... What would the 710 sizing be ? Thanks

[Artisandenim]

Jeanius, couple of points.

Firstly if it's a hip hop look you are after then you are in the wrong place. From what I've seen, Japanese raw denim is just not aimed at that market, or constructed with that image in mind (with the exception of those godawful evisu from the 90's).

Secondly I'm guessing you have white sneakers. Bear in mind you are likely to get some indigo bleed onto your lovely crisp kicks, ESPECIALLY if you wear them no cuff style.

3rd, the s5000vx is straight leg and is likely to hang over your heel if you leave them long enough to stack. Are you sure you would not be better off with a tapered style? I find these work much better with trainers...

Lastly I will say that I my opinion the 5000vx are anything but tight. I sized down one from my natural waist and after soaking/shrinking I am still not completely comfortable with how loose they are, That said I definitely favour a slim style, so anything else is unusual for me. Had I gone tts there is no way I would have worn them as they would have been terrifyingly loose for me (but probably just a bit 'comfortable' for most people), so if that's what you are looking for...

I suppose I would say that in terms of 'looseness' tts would give you the room you need (unless you have power lifters legs) but I don't think that the leg opening is going to offer what you want in terms of trainers. If you like I will take a pic of mine with trainers to give you an idea?

I ordered mine from 2nd. No probs.

[rockon99]

Thinking about getting some s5000vx's in the near future. This will be my first raw denim purchase so I'm kind of nervous about the fit since I won't be able to return (planning on buying from 2nd off rakuten unless better options are available). I don't like my jeans tight. If anything I prefer more of the hip hop look but nothing too baggy or sloppy. I wear size 34 in most jean brands including gap and hudson. Planning on staying true to size if I end up ordering. Is this a good idea? My main concern I guess with these is whether the leg opening will look good with sneakers since that's what I'll be wearing most of the time. I'll want some stacking, no cuff, and prefer the jean not to be hanging over the shoe. Is this look achievable? Any input is helpful. Thanks

 

hip hop look is not possible. it just will not work. there really is no way. truely. absolutely. (4?)

[Max Power]

Between 32 and 33...... Have a pair of 666s in 32 but the thighs are a little bit too tight...... Max, which denim do you prefer out of the 17 and 21 ? Seems to me 19oz are superior to both but i am just going off pictures and not seeing the denim in person....... What would the 710 sizing be ? Thanks

You're right, I prefer the 19 oz denim, but the 17 oz is a close second. Way slubbier and with more character than the 21 oz denim (IMO). Just look at the 5000s above.

 

The 666 in 32 should shrink from 32" to 31" and stretch back to around 32". The 710 should start at 33 and shrink to 32, so that might be the better choice. I can't speak for the thighs, but in my size (34) the 666 has slimmer thighs than the same size in 710, so that should work out for you.

[Jeanius1]

I've seen the look I'm aiming for on some people with the 5000vx's and 710's alike so maybe the hip hop look is not an appropriate description of what I'm shooting for. Not planning on sagging, nor do I want a sloppy look. Measurements from my favorite jeans are as follows:

 

Hudson Dandy Slouch 34"

Waist: 17.5"

Front Rise: 11.75"

Back Rise: 15.5" 

Upper Thigh: 12"

Knee: 9"

Leg Opening: 8"

 

Adriano Goldschmied Protege Straight Leg 33"

Waist: 17.5"

Front Rise: 10"

Back Rise: 16"

Upper Thigh: 12.25"

Knee: 9"

Leg Opening: 9"

Edited April 14, 2014 by Jeanius1

[Max Power]

The first is similar to the 710. The second more like the 510 (dispite the low front rise). If the sagging you speak of originates from the long rises, skip the 5000.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

yep...710 in 34 (or even 33 if want a slimmer leg and a bit of pain stretching them) sound like the way to go.

 

Personally, I would compare the AG jeans rather to the S5000 (only looking at the leg though)

[Jeanius1]

Any levis or other common brand that the 5000, 510, and 710 could be compared to post soak so that I can try on at store and get an idea of which fit I like best?

[Artisandenim]

Mate, I assure you I am in no way taking the piss when i say this...

Look through this thread, then look through this forum in general. Everyone is searching for their 'ideal' fit, their 'perfect' jean. Everyone knows what that is, for them. No one can find it for themselves, let alone tell someone else what would be goldilocks for them. And even if and when you do find that fit, that moment of fading, when that pair of jeans is EXACTLY how you always wanted them to be, you're screwed 'cos they will carry on changing. Then you start again...

I really don't want to get all zen about this but dude, the journey IS the destination. Seek and ye shall find etc etc.

The whole point is that these are not a 'common' brand so how to compare?! These jeans will change, day by day, week by week and wash (if that's your bag) by wash. The fit and look you start with will not be the fit and look you have 2 weeks later and certainly not 6 months later. They are individual and will adapt (or not) to you.

Make some basic decisions - high/med/low rise, loose/slim, straight/tapered, weight, arcs/no arcs etc. match your measurements as best you can, then make your best guess, based on this information and also the help from this forum. Then just f**king get involved and see what happens!

And yes, I am a bit mashed at the mo, but I still think this is valid...

[ColdStorage]

Jeanius, where are you located? Just curious if you have a proximity to any retailers. Buying from Rakuten (or any Japan direct really) is only a good deal when you really know what you are looking for. They often don't take returns and if they do, the shipping is going to nullify any savings.

 

Even if you aren't near New York, buying your Samurai from Blue In Green* is probably your best bet if there is a chance you might need an exchange. They are an extremely helpful and customer service oriented retailer - really earning their markups in my opinion.

 

For what its worth, I have trouble wearing my 5000s with anything besides boots, so when I read that you want to wear them with trainers I think it might not be the best model for you. But everyone is different of course.

 

*(I'm assuming you are in the US, correct me if i'm wrong)

Edited April 14, 2014 by ColdStorage

[12ax7]

Mate, I assure you I am in no way taking the piss when i say this...

Look through this thread, then look through this forum in general. Everyone is searching for their 'ideal' fit, their 'perfect' jean. Everyone knows what that is, for them. No one can find it for themselves, let alone tell someone else what would be goldilocks for them. And even if and when you do find that fit, that moment of fading, when that pair of jeans is EXACTLY how you always wanted them to be, you're screwed 'cos they will carry on changing. Then you start again...

I really don't want to get all zen about this but dude, the journey IS the destination. Seek and ye shall find etc etc.

The whole point is that these are not a 'common' brand so how to compare?! These jeans will change, day by day, week by week and wash (if that's your bag) by wash. The fit and look you start with will not be the fit and look you have 2 weeks later and certainly not 6 months later. They are individual and will adapt (or not) to you.

Make some basic decisions - high/med/low rise, loose/slim, straight/tapered, weight, arcs/no arcs etc. match your measurements as best you can, then make your best guess, based on this information and also the help from this forum. Then just f**king get involved and see what happens!

And yes, I am a bit mashed at the mo, but I still think this is valid...

 

I cant agree more with this.  In my opinion getting into the high end selvedge/raw denim game is one of the most frustrating, but also rewarding hobbies you can have.  When i first got into it I thought no big deal ill get one pair that measures closed to what I like and be all good.  That is no way the case.  More than half the fun of this hobby IS the chase. 

 

In my experience, denim I break in never comes out exactly like I envisioned it but thats ok,  because it developed character based on my history with it.   

 

Pretty much everyone will tell you the same bit of advice;  Find a pair that measures close to something you like, buy it, wear the hell out of it, and odds are you will love it.  Good luck and have fun Jeanius1!!!!!!!!

 

Anyway my 2 pennies.

[ColdStorage]

Artisandenim

Member Since 22 Feb 2014

 

 

All due respect, it was only a few pages back when Artisandenim was in here asking a pile of questions about his first purchase: a pair of 710XX... and many people (myself included) were happy to field questions, even if they have all been answered many times before.

 

Sometimes it's a drag having all these sizing questions but everyone has to start somewhere. Jeanius has been reasonably polite in his inquiries I don't see any reason to smack him on the nose. Yes, he is going to learn 10x more by experience than with questions but a bit of hand holding to get him up and running isn't going to hurt anyone.

[JohnM]

The best advice I've received on the question of denim choice and fit came from Hiro at Blue in Green.  He said something to the effect that, "we have many nice jeans but fit is most important -- if they don't fit, nothing else matters.  Find a pair of jeans (or pants) that fit well and measure them the way we do.  Then call me with these measurements and I'll advise."

 

So I took a pair of old Levi's 550's, measured them, made a few modifications, and called Hiro.  He said the Samurai S710XX and Fullcount 1108XX would work well for me.  Bottom line, he was right.  In addition, the members of this forum were really helpful at this point too because they could view my fit pics (e.g., raw/unwashed Fullcount in 35 and 36) and advise based on their experience with shrinkage and stretch.

 

This is the journey and I guess I'm now on it.  The downside is that I bought a couple of pairs of very nice jeans before going through this process and don't fit right quite right -- shocking! ;-)  They're great jeans (for some) but either the front and back rises are too low (Iron Heart 634s and 633s) or the back rise is a little low relative to the front (3Sixteen+).

 

John

[Artisandenim]

Ouch - called out by cold storage!

I promise you I meant no harm, no offence and certainly not a smack on the nose?! It was a lighthearted monologue meant to light a bit of a fire and get some decision making on the go! I

Damn right I asked for help, but only after spending hours trawling this forum and this thread in particular, to narrow down my choice to the 710's. I then asked some sizing questions for that particular style and lot no. And was extremely grateful for the help, from both yourself and the others. I believe I said so at the time too.

I was trying to point out something I learned almost immediately which is that this is an Inexact science and not to try to hard or expect an instant solution.

It was written as one newbie to another in support and encouragement to dive in and that is how it shoud be taken.

So there.

[Artisandenim]

Ps - I advised the same re 5000 and trainers on the last page. So at least we agree on something ;-)

Edited April 14, 2014 by Artisandenim

[BrownMetallic]

Yeah, a denimhead's destination IS the journey itself ... & last thing in one's mind is "to arrive"

These jeans are hand-made & often times sizing varies by prodn lot. I've tried/purchased dozens & bombed on the sizing &/or fit/cut quite a few number of times in the process ... sometimes, miscalculations, other times I convinced myself that [a cut] would work on me.

Through it all, meaning the "binges & purges", I still can't truly say that I am [expert] in anything cuz__   denim & personal taste are always in constant flux

 

 

 

I really don't want to get all zen about this but dude, the journey IS the destination.

Edited April 15, 2014 by BrownMetallic

[S-Town]

Jeanius, I actually think a Levi's retailer at the mall can actually help lead you in the right direction between the 5000 and the 510.  I'm not really sure what would be a close approximation for the 710.  But a poor man's fit test would be to try on the 514 vs the 501 in the same size.  Which looks better to you?  And more importantly, which feels more comfortable in the rise/thigh area?

 

This won't be perfect, but it's better than nothing.  My humble opinion of course.

[Robert Langdon]

@jeanius

I accidentally gave you a negative rep point a page back. My bad, the page was too small and I have hammerhead thumbs.

For reference, I just ordered some s500 one washed from pirates. This time I sized up 2 so I can wash and machine dry them regularly. Based on yuichis measurements the waist after wash is a cm too big but the everything else is spot on. I would have sized up 1 but the rise would be to low for my junk. I only rock runners with jeans and I think either the 500 or 710 would work best. FYI I had a bad experience with the 510s. The top block fit like a glove but the wide legs had me looking like a 90s raver chick. Not sure of the 5000s but it all depends on body type.

If I was you I would buy a one wash version from Yuichi at pirates. He'll get back to you quick fast with measurements. Either way good luck..

[will19]

S5000 would look best worn with boots from its leg opening IMO, here's my fit pic.21 oz sized down 1 and the denim is stretchy, size 30actual waist 31".

But usually I just throw in some sneakers when I go to campus. This jawns made me love looser and straight fit, I don't wear my tapered jeans anymore since my thigh and balls are so comfortable in this jeans

Edited April 15, 2014 by will19

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Very good fit!

Yeah the S5000 goes very well with boots. But if you hem your S5000 to the right length, it also works with sneakers

[straightarrow]

a size 33 in Samurai can usually always be stretched beyond 33" in the waist. From that point you should be good.

Unfortunately, I don't have experience with the bootcut models but from what I heard they have a rather tight top block (thigh, hip, crotch area). IMO, the only real problems you could encounter are in that area, not the waist itself

You were exactly right about the top block.  I got the 512XXBCs in today.  This is my first pair of high end raw denim jeans and I love the weight, texture and silhouette and am totally psyched about them.  But now I am in a dilemma about sizing.  The size 33 fits exactly right everywhere except for the top block which is extremely tight.  Oddly the waist is slightly large (which should be perfect for shrinkage) upper thigh and knee are perfect, but top block is so tight it's hard to sit.

 It's hard to imagine they will be wearable after soaking so it seems my only safe option is to exchange for size 34.  

Any thoughts before I send them back to exchange?

 

My ex wife used to call me snake hips, lol, so I thought the top block wouldn't be a problem for me.  It's hard to understand how someone could be that slim in the hips/butt but take a waist size so much larger, odd way to build them.  Anyway, can't wait to get sized up right, hemmed and into them.

[louisbosco]

yes the s5000 is my favorite cut. i've got 3 pairs of s5000 already. they're really comfy.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

@straightarrow: yeah that sounds like upsizing is your only hope. I don't see much stretch in the top block area and first of all, it will shrink even more as you know

Edited April 16, 2014 by beautiful_FrEaK

[Mich]

S5000VX 170z detail shots

 

 

 

 

 

[straightarrow]

Just curious, has anyone ever experimented with any kind of differential soaking/shrinking, i.e., cold soaking first to remove starch and then after drying and assessing, hot soaking a specific part (as opposed to the whole jeans) to get more shrinkage in that area while leaving other parts as is?