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Lavelle/UNKLE music experts needed


Marcus

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I don't think it's a sample, cos it continues all the way thru the song.. I think it's a Beck-ish trick where Thom's playing piano and they've added hiss and compression.. the begining is Eric Satie-ish and the middle 8 tips its hat to Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata ( i think...)

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dude, that's a sample. Shadow produced it. The song has the music credited to DJ shadow and Yorke credited as playing synth, bass, and vocals--but not piano. Since it's a shadow sample, you might find out what it is on the web somewhere, but good luck finding a copy of the original song.

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The Jacob's Ladder sample is used as a bridge monologue 3/4ths of the way through the song. The piano sample wasn't from the movie. DJ Shadow credits all his samples, so I'm sure you'll be able to find out where its from.

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The Jacob's Ladder sample is used as a bridge monologue 3/4ths of the way through the song. The piano sample wasn't from the movie. DJ Shadow credits all his samples, so I'm sure you'll be able to find out where its from.

--- Original message by djrajio on Aug 22, 2005 08:58 AM

DJ Shadow does NOT credit all his samples. First of all, many of his songs include dozens of different samples. Do you know how much of a pain in the ass that would be?

He IS careful about stuff, as the spotlight is on him so to speak. I know for a fact that Shadow and artists like him have been buying out the publishing on really obscure records they sample somtimes. That way, technically they are sampling something they own and don't have to clear it w/ anyone. Also, sometimes NO ONE owns the publishing on the really obscure stuff, and then they usually don't worry about it.

That piano sample has no credit in the liner notes, and the only songwriters on the song are Shadow and Yorke.

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The Pointman is Futura's trademark..besides his signature anyhow. Lavelle was chummy with Futura back when him and shadow teamed up for psyence fiction and he did the artwork. Futura only uses one kind of pointman for unkle tho... 38 meg and all the others never appears on any unkle artwork.

check out some other unkle releases for some really cool non-pointman futura artwork

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I think if that piano was a sample he would HAVE to credit it, or he would get his ass sued, because it's such a prominent part of the track. Other samples are credited on the album, tho of course everything on Endtroducing etc wasn't. Loads of people who started off using shitloads of samples have ended up generating 'new' ones for legal reasons.

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i've seen interviews with shadow where he mentions that older obscure material - besides being harder to find and most likely a more unique sample - is great because (if its old enough) its public domain and free to use.. just my two cents.

what album do you guys like better? anyone else feelin' never never land?

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I think if that piano was a sample he would HAVE to credit it, or he would get his ass sued, because it's such a prominent part of the track. Other samples are credited on the album, tho of course everything on Endtroducing etc wasn't. Loads of people who started off using shitloads of samples have ended up generating 'new' ones for legal reasons.

--- Original message by Paul T on Aug 22, 2005 10:41 AM

Like I said, he wouldn't have to credit it if he bought out the publishing of the original material. Nor would he have to if no one kept the publishing up to date over the years (which means that no one owns it). There's loads of samples he doesn't clear.

You are also assuming that he looped the sample. In which case the original artist has a good chance of bringing up a point. If he chopped it up and replayed it (as shadow is very good at), it would be difficult for the original artist to even recognize their material and even harder to prove their case in court. Also, do you honestly think that if Shadow sampled some middle American privately pressed folk record from 1969 (which is highly likely) that the original artist (who is now 60) would have ever heard that Unkle track? doubtful. Also doubtful that they would recognize a 4 segment of that record, especially if that 4 bars didn't play an important role in the orginal song (likely).

Sample clearance is about due diligence. Shadow is very respectful of original artists and often goes out of his way to track them down, interview them, and maintain a relationship with them.

Although others do it, Shadow doesn't replay stuff he uses samples as his source material. So I am quite sure that is a sample. It is not creditied because he didn't have to surely, most likely for one of the reasons above.

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legally you don't have to credit each sample, you have to PAY to use it. the two things are very different

--- Original message by Cue on Aug 23, 2005 01:52 AM

It depends. Every clearance is different. Some sample owners want publishing only on the new song. In that case you'd see their name as a song writer on the track. Some people only want a lump sum check for using the sample. Some people, believe it or not, just want credit and no money.

Legally you don't have to credit each sample, you just have to clear its use (which usually involves money).

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