chucks vintage official thread

[Chicken]

I was featured in free and easy already but not lighting.

makes sense. could you tell us which issue?

[Charlie Delta]

^ here lil' chickadee

(and the following posts, feel like translating?)

[Chicken]

^ ooops. sorry for a newb move. i guess i should've read this thread more carefully.

been pretty busy lately. sorry i haven't been pitching new translations. it's all the economy's fault.

[chucksvintage]

WW@ Levis back pocket

[Charlie Delta]

Deadstock 60's workshirt :

It's a super nice and heavy BIG MAC double barrel twill 85% cotton 15 % nylon shirt.

The fit couldn't have been better I think.

And what I like so much about it, is that it's an item I probably would never choose myself and yet I liked it the moment I put it on.

I still can't believe I actually guessed it, thank you so much Madeline/Chucksvintage!!!

Crosspost from waywt

[chucksvintage]

You are very welcome. It fits you perfectly. I love Vintage work shirts. Enjoy it.

[gno]

sigh they dont make them like they used to

[lilldavid]

Deadstock 60's workshirt :

It's a super nice and heavy BIG MAC double barrel twill 85% cotton 15 % nylon shirt.

The fit couldn't have been better I think.

And what I like so much about it, is that it's an item I probably would never choose myself and yet I liked it the moment I put it on.

I still can't believe I actually guessed it, thank you so much Madeline/Chucksvintage!!!

Crosspost from waywt

Nice!

I never knew you got those mr freedom jeans...

[chucksvintage]

They don't don't make anything like they used to. Mainly because everything is made in China.

[mopar_jj]

^agrees - Seems like nothing is made in the USA or Canada anymore. Workmanship is a dying art

[gno]

its sad indeed the only real american things i own would probably be my 875 and a zippo....

[gno]

there's nothing wrong with that tho.. fact of the matter is that a number of countries' denim is currently superior to modern american made denim quality wise..

even the japanese levis co. carry better jeans than we do

[chucksvintage]

Because unfortuanity the average consumer does not care and would rather were a lie than what's true and pure. American's started the Art of denim and some where along the lines we forgot about it. That is what I find to be so sad.

[gno]

sad indeed americans did start the art of denim but they opted for quantity rather than quality..

[coleslawyum]

But that's been the American business model for decades. Growth means bottom line. Corners will be cut. If there's not growth then whats the point? (According to the business model.)

[gno]

idk.. it was outsourced for a reason cheap labor and materials..and about making more money i doubt it right now for them the money is in middle/lower working citizens in which they look for cheap jeans for work... iono tho thats how i feel

[Denim Phenom]

The pair of 1947 501XXs that I have aren't nearly as nice as any of the Japanese denim that I own. If American companies made a better product then maybe they would get the business.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

Because unfortuanity the average consumer does not care and would rather were a lie than what's true and pure. American's started the Art of denim and some where along the lines we forgot about it. That is what I find to be so sad.

people have different priorities, I like jeans but understand that very few people other than me do and I don't hold a grudge towards those with ugly jeans, that would be ridiculous. I don't know or give a shit about cars but expect people to treat me with respect anyway.

get off your high horse, there's nothing wrong with having a different opinion than you and me.

also, that thing about chinese made stuff being bad quality is bs. Is American Apparel the highest quality tshirts you can find? No, so obviously origin doesn't matter one bit.

What matters is the attitude and ambition of the people who made a product, not what their passport says.

If you bought a product simply because it said made in USA, thinking it was a sure sign of quality, then you'd be the one with the bad judgement, not the person who bought Colombian made Levi's that fit his purpose exactly.

There is no bigger lie in the clothing industry than "Made in XXXX". The best brand for jeans are in my opinion Japanese but I understand that this does not mean that Japanese jeans in general are good, a lot of people dont. A whole lot of crap is made in Japan, USA and Italy.

If you're looking for a quality product, look at the product instead of the tags!!

[le_chic_garcon]

^agrees - Seems like nothing is made in the USA or Canada anymore. Workmanship is a dying art

They still make crayola markers and stuff in the U.S. or atleast last time I checked.

[chucksvintage]

For me being on a high horse I think you are completly blinded about craftmanship and quality. It is not only Americans who don't give a shit but many other counties because people give a shit more about price points and that is what I am discussing. I understand if you average person can not pay a lot of many for a high end jean but I do not think you should have to pay a lot for quality that is what I am trying to say. And when we started out sourcing to other countries because labor was cheaper that is were we wen't wrong as Americans. And as for Japenese denim your right they make the best product right now. But hello they own OUR old looms. Do some research.

[chucksvintage]

Vintage everything is the best because the people that made it gave a shit.

[cheep]

And as for Japenese denim your right they make the best product right now. But hello they own OUR old looms. Do some research.

actually, most japanese denim is made on toyoda looms... the thing about us looms being bought up is more myth than anything

[Cameland]

Okay, I'm not expert but from what I remember. The myths about how japan buying the american shuttle looms from the 80s was already proven wrong?

I remember there being a thread about it - someone find it.

go!

[hawkeye]

Here you go...

ringring, I just saw on a website about it, on an old discussion board, someone said Cone Mills had changed to the wide-width looms and the old ones were deteriorating, getting useless... and they had a hard time to fix them, so they sold about 90% of them to Japan (I believe the first post-wide-width-loom narrow-width-loom-denim-manufacturers were Kurabo and Kaihara). These Japanese fixed the "complicated" old looms piece by piece "with the precision of a watch" and so on... while in Cone Mills they still have a very small quantity of old looms. I think they still use the old looms at Cone Mills. Oh, and the Japanese have learned from the looms they acquired to develop and build their own narrow-width looms. -sorry if this doesn't make much sense I'm need to sleep-

Geowu, I would love to see definitive accounts of whether Cone sold looms to Japan. But given the number of Toyoda looms in circulation in Japan (and even Europe and the US), I can't see why the Japanese would want to buy them. I'm sure there will be some US looms there, but I don't believe they were the ones used for volume production. People I know who went to Kurabo in the late '80s tell me they didn't see any evidence of American, as opposed to Japanese, looms...

Let me add to that statement...

I had a faxed 'interview' with the man who first made the claim to have bought "old Levi's looms". He told me exactly that in a faxed statement. THen I faxed him and asked, "well, are you saying that you bought some of Cone's old looms, because of course Levi's never owned any'. His reply was vague, but essentially he said he had bought "american-style vintage looms'. Of course, even this was not true, as the jeans manufacturer in question bought its denim in from another company in Osaka. This, to me, indicated that the claim about buying old Cone looms was initially a nice piece of spin, to embellish what was essentially true, that Japan, rather than the US, had become the true home of high quality selvage denim.

cone has about 30 of their original looms, and not all are still running. they are from the 1950s to 1960s. cone started switching totally to wide width looms and open end yarn in the early 1980s for mass production. cone still makes denim for levis "lvc" and sells some other qualities to various other companies in small quantities. after ww2 in the 1950s the u.s. was in a huge econmoic growth and occupied japan, at this time alot of american equipment from various types of factories was sold to japan. im sure looms were sent to japan, but currently i think most of the shuttle looms that kaihara and kurabo use are more modern copies of old style looms...

sweet-orr

Cone did lose a lot of their old staff with the old looms - the new looms required fewer operators. I've been told that when Cone reintroduced selvage they had to entice staff out of retirement to operate them.

FWIW, as COne had a lot of looms at one time, I don't see why some of them couldn't have ended up in Japan. But the story started by Evis that they'd bought them is, I believe, total rubbish.

One of the best threads in Superdenim: http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=771

[cheep]

id like to add... evisu is using made in the usa cone denim on a model for either a/w 07 or a/w 08... and its beautiful... looks like old vintage levis denim.

[chund]

damn. was just about to post that link but got carried away and read the thread before i could do it. probably one of the most informative ones ive read on here.

[Cameland]

Thanks hawkeye that was definately the thread I was talking about, really was one of the best. But there you go, research done!

[poly800rock]

id like to add... evisu is using made in the usa cone denim on a model for either a/w 07 or a/w 08... and its beautiful... looks like old vintage levis denim.

does that mean evisu will switch to US based production as well?

[cheep]

its made in macau... same place as apc... with usa made denim... its a buckle back model...

[hawkeye]

Rag & Bone denim is from Cone if I remember correctly...Made in a factory in NC that used to make Levis.