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Full Count Denim Thread


chris_n

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But why target Denimio?  Because it specializes in overseas shipping?  Why not go after like Klax-On, 2nd, Pirates or any other store that is fine with shipping overseas.  Is FC also pulling out of Okayama Denim?

 

 

yes that's why, I guess. the difference between denimio and the rest of them is that denimio marks every package as a "sample, with no commercial value", so effectively the customers do not have to pay customs fees, EUST, etc..

besides that, it is their easier availability and overall better service, for non experienced buyers.

 

this is just an educated guess, though.

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Yeah I was a tad upset that Denimio without me even asking marked my jeans as a sample.  I'm no perfect angel but it felt somewhat wrong to blatantly lie on the importing slip.  I know on reddit it is pretty common for everyone to ask Rakuten stores to mark the item as lower value but it feels wrong to me.  I'm actually glad 2nd and Klax outright refuse to do it.

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Don't forget that this has happened before. Pretty sure Denimio were very close to stocking The Strike Gold and then it got pulled last minute, if I remember correctly due to pressure from international retailers who TSG understandably didn't want to piss off by giving business to Denimio.

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Don't forget that this has happened before. Pretty sure Denimio were very close to stocking The Strike Gold and then it got pulled last minute, if I remember correctly due to pressure from international retailers who TSG understandably didn't want to piss off by giving business to Denimio.

 

That entire thing as a tad messy since Kiya said on reddit he never once blocked TSG from being stocked.

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Yeah I was a tad upset that Denimio without me even asking marked my jeans as a sample.  I'm no perfect angel but it felt somewhat wrong to blatantly lie on the importing slip.  I know on reddit it is pretty common for everyone to ask Rakuten stores to mark the item as lower value but it feels wrong to me.  I'm actually glad 2nd and Klax outright refuse to do it.

 

you're an honest guy

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That entire thing as a tad messy since Kiya said on reddit he never once blocked TSG from being stocked.

 

I wasn't trying to cast blame on anyone - and even if some store prevented Denimio from getting business their reasoning would be understandable (because there is no way for them to compete pricing wise) - this is just what I remember hearing as the reasoning provided. If's probably not the whole story, I just brought it up because Fullcount being pulled would not be the first time Denimio had problems stocking/keeping a brand around.

 

EDIT: I agree with what Blue Nemo said. For me, as a consumer, Denimio is great and beneficial. But if you think about it from the perspective of international retailers it gets troublesome because the retailers have to count on their clients not being internet-savvy enough to order directly from Japan.

Edited by Frost
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I guess maybe I'm a dirty capitalist but I've always been of the opinion if you can't compete that means you've got a bad business model.  BiG/SE have a great thing going because they actually have these items in stock so you can look, feel and size.  For the average joe (someone not posting on a denim forum) they don't want to buy expensive clothes before being able to try it on.  So BiG/SE have a great market there.  The only time it feels scummy is if someone uses SE/BiG to determine sizing, get great customer service and help at the retail store then goes home to "think about it" and just purchases the same thing from Rakuten.  I have an issue with that.  But that relies upon hoping people aren't assholes which in my experience with people is a pretty big jump.

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Also to try and actually contribute to this thread other than internet retailer vs brick and mortar musings.  BiG had their summer sale and I bought this FC leather jacket for a song.  It may be just a touch big but I really like it.

 

LpaX05Q.jpg?15mIb2kZ.jpg?1

lxI9t7p.jpg?1

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I guess maybe I'm a dirty capitalist but I've always been of the opinion if you can't compete that means you've got a bad business model.  BiG/SE have a great thing going because they actually have these items in stock so you can look, feel and size.  For the average joe (someone not posting on a denim forum) they don't want to buy expensive clothes before being able to try it on.  So BiG/SE have a great market there.  The only time it feels scummy is if someone uses SE/BiG to determine sizing, get great customer service and help at the retail store then goes home to "think about it" and just purchases the same thing from Rakuten.  I have an issue with that.  But that relies upon hoping people aren't assholes which in my experience with people is a pretty big jump.

 

 

See, in general, I agree with you.

 

But the reality is that it is actually impossible for retailers to compete with Denimio/Rakuten. They are not playing in the same field. Denimio/Rakuten buys from the Japanese brands, offers the Japanese retail price for international customers, has free/cheap shipping, and let's just say that if you're "lucky", no taxes for you.

 

Now an international retailer buys from the japanese brands, has to pay shipping fees and import taxes and also has to buy enough items so that it makes an international business transaction worthwile for the brand. And then they have to add taxes to the price if they are selling to a local audience (and are not shipping internationally as well were certain taxes can be waved) If an international retailer would try to compete pricing wise with Denimio/rakuten and offer the same price as in Japan, they would (probably) be operating at a significant loss.

 

Now, I agree that brick and mortar stores have certain advantages - nice atmosphere, helpful staff, you can try on stuff etc., but there always comes a point where those things (which the store has to pay for as well) do not outweigh your (as a customer) monetary benefit of getting the stuff A LOT cheaper directly from Japan, with the added benefit of not even having to leave the house.

 

AGAIN, I'm no trying to demonize anyone here. Both options have their merits and their place in the industry. And stores like SE/BIG will probably survive regardless of this, because they have an audience. But if you are a smaller retail shop who has to rely on a key group of people to buy the articles through you, japanese shops can be considered a huge problem. Especially because there is no way for you to come even close to offering a similar price (or even some details - you can't attach the red tab in the States for example).

 

 

Meh, went completely off-topic here, apologies guys.

 

Jacket looks pretty great dwilson.

Edited by Frost
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Yeah, it does suck. Same with my reliance on sites like Amazon. I don't feel great about it but with a new baby I shouldn't be buying jeans full stop, so I have to find ways around it. 

 

This will sound extremely ignorant, but are Japanese brands like Full Count powerless in these situations? Is it to do with the small amounts being produced and the relative expensive of importing them? Obviously big brands like Beams can knock out MiJ goods for much cheaper prices, but do UK retailers face the same import costs with them? 

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Okay guys, I need some sizing advice for the 1109XX. I'm wearing a size 31 in PBJ XX-012, which I've measured after many months and washes:

 

W: 78cm / 30.7"

FR: 24.5cm / 9.6"

T: 26.5cm / 10.6"

K: 19cm / 7.5"

H: 17.5 / 6.9"

The waist is a little bit loose (maybe an inch or so, not that much, they still stay on without a belt), everything else is comfortably slim fitting.

 

So, if I look at the charts over at BiG that would mean a size 30 (raw) right? Could probably pull off a size 29 at first but I fear with multiple washes they'll end up too small...

 

Thanks for the input.

 

 

 

 

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So, if I look at the charts over at BiG that would mean a size 30 (raw) right? Could probably pull off a size 29 at first but I fear with multiple washes they'll end up too small...

 

Thanks for the input.

 

I have a pair of PBJ 007 and 013 in 31, but went for a 30 1109xx. 

 

Fit pic...

 

waywt_01.jpg

 

I've only soaked them, and I reckon they'll shrink a bit more. I think I could have got into a 29, but like you say, you probably risk not being able to wear them again after a couple of hot washes.

 

I actually just had another pair arrive on Friday from Denimio. Only ordered them on Monday night.

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Just repped a few guys over the last pages as I missed the discussion Re: denimio. A lot of truth spoken through thoughtful Posts, thanks for that.

 

I somewhat "fear", that denimio is not even at it's Peak of popularity. If you just see it from a capitalist's view, their growth is well earned - they saw a blank spot in the market, offer super fast, easy transactions with a decent looking and easy understandable website. Not to speak of their low prices due to their ability to source locally. I suppose the strong Dollar / weak Yen feeds the flames right now.

 

 The only thing our western retailers can put up against that is a good buying experience. A lot of brands available, talk about denim, hence create a Meeting place not just a Fashion shop. I know a few stores that offer that experience and it's way more rewarding to buy there and support them thn jsut order online. It's money if you're able to try on or touch brands that you just know via the Internet and I want to keep the stores alive to do that. I have no problem to help the stores doing that by paying a bit more than in Japan.  It also put some brands on my radar that I would have overlooked otherwise and killed some other's that I thought were better than they were.

 

I am aware that I'm in a lucky position to have these stores at reach.

 

(Same goes for my record stores or  book shops - isn't it a much better feeling browsing through real stuff than just ordering online?)

 

If I order in Japan, it's stuff that I don't get in my local shop and even then, from a nostalgic Point of view, I prefer the Google translating or Proxy purchases over the denimio Website. It's just way more exciting that way and the custom gamble is the same. And also then, I think it's more rewarding to Support People like Yuichi or Naoki than just going for the cheapest option.

 

But yeah, it would make more sense if FC would choose a straight path - either stop sales from Japan to the west in general or allow them. Just ruling out one supplier sounds strange - I wonder wether the western retailers have enough selling possibilities to outnumber denimio.

 

(Can also be moved to blunders, sorry if I'm derailing the thread).

Edited by Max Power
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The only thing our western retailers can put up against that is a good buying experience. A lot of brands available, talk about denim, hence create a Meeting place not just a Fashion shop. I know a few stores that offer that experience and it's way more rewarding to buy there and support them thn jsut order online. It's money if you're able to try on or touch brands that you just know via the Internet and I want to keep the stores alive to do that. I have no problem to help the stores doing that by paying a bit more than in Japan.  It also put some brands on my radar that I would have overlooked otherwise and killed some other's that I thought were better than they were.

 

I wonder if we'll see more homegrown stocked brands in response to it?

 

I also don't mind paying a bit more to support, but in the case of the Full Count jeans I just bought it was £121 vs £250 for a pair of wardrobe staples that I know will fit exactly how I want them to. Thats a massive difference.

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Exactly. I also got my first pair of FullCounts during a vacation in NYC at BIG and had a great experience there and the next time I´m in NYC I will visit the store again for a purchase for sure. On the other side I payed more than 300 € in NYC for the same pair that I can get for ca. 160 € now when I´m ordering from Japan/Denimio. That said, FullCount is not available here in Germany. If I want to buy it "here" I also have to order it online but from the U.K. (for over 300 € again). So thumbs up for Denimio again from my end!

Edited by Bill_e_jean
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Just repped a few guys over the last pages as I missed the discussion Re: denimio. A lot of truth spoken through thoughtful Posts, thanks for that.

 

I somewhat "fear", that denimio is not even at it's Peak of popularity. If you just see it from a capitalist's view, their growth is well earned - they saw a blank spot in the market, offer super fast, easy transactions with a decent looking and easy understandable website. Not to speak of their low prices due to their ability to source locally. I suppose the strong Dollar / weak Yen feeds the flames right now.

 

Indeed, Denimio is only going to get bigger, and they are being very smart about their business. It's not just the low prices/weak Yen and well organized website, they also have a fantastic grasp of which products are going to sell well for them. XX-012 Contest, Samurai collab in their most loved cut, Momotaro collab which has proven so successful for Blue Owl in the past (again a tapered cut), the stocking of Oni, and a solid social media presence (at least on instagram), all add up to them being a very rapidly growing shop. Well done, and well deserved IMO.

 

 

The only thing our western retailers can put up against that is a good buying experience. A lot of brands available, talk about denim, hence create a Meeting place not just a Fashion shop. I know a few stores that offer that experience and it's way more rewarding to buy there and support them thn jsut order online. It's money if you're able to try on or touch brands that you just know via the Internet and I want to keep the stores alive to do that. I have no problem to help the stores doing that by paying a bit more than in Japan.  It also put some brands on my radar that I would have overlooked otherwise and killed some other's that I thought were better than they were.

 

I am aware that I'm in a lucky position to have these stores at reach.

 

(Same goes for my record stores or  book shops - isn't it a much better feeling browsing through real stuff than just ordering online?)

 

 

While I fully agree with you that it is this type of shopping experience that secures customers/repeat customers, this is also VERY hard to pull off. You have to be very enthusiastic and really love your job and can't be discouraged when people start to simply come over to "hang out" and don't buy anything. It is not easy, but then again, it is very much required to succeed in the field nowadays and very enjoyable when done right. The question is: How much is this worth to you? When does the "price of admission" simply get to high and you start buying from Japan? 200 bucks per item? 100? 50? Depends on the person and the item in question I think, but I know full well that I have my limits when it comes to paying more instead of ordering online. And I like my local shop very much.

 

 

If I order in Japan, it's stuff that I don't get in my local shop and even then, from a nostalgic Point of view, I prefer the Google translating or Proxy purchases over the denimio Website. It's just way more exciting that way and the custom gamble is the same. And also then, I think it's more rewarding to Support People like Yuichi or Naoki than just going for the cheapest option.

 

But yeah, it would make more sense if FC would choose a straight path - either stop sales from Japan to the west in general or allow them. Just ruling out one supplier sounds strange - I wonder wether the western retailers have enough selling possibilities to outnumber denimio.

 

(Can also be moved to blunders, sorry if I'm derailing the thread).

 

 

Has anymore info on FC & Denimio emerged? Ed said one sentence about it and no one else has posted any reliable information. It would indeed be weird if only Denimio is targeted.

Edited by Frost
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While I fully agree with you that it is this type of shopping experience that secures customers/repeat customers, this is also VERY hard to pull off. You have to be very enthusiastic and really love your job and can't be discouraged when people start to simply come over to "hang out" and don't buy anything. It is not easy, but then again, it is very much required to succeed in the field nowadays and very enjoyable when done right. The question is: How much is this worth to you? When does the "price of admission" simply get to high and you start buying from Japan? 200 bucks per item? 100? 50? Depends on the person and the item in question I think, but I know full well that I have my limits when it comes to paying more instead of ordering online. And I like my local shop very much.

 

Pretty much. Also, it's got to the point where I can get any info I need from sites like SUFU before I buy. There was a time when there was basically no way to buy a lot of these brands if you lived in Europe. There were one or two shops in London with limited brands and buying online from Japan was far too confusing. As a result, the only times I bought jeans were on trips to New York and I could get to BiG. Then I was happy to suck up the higher prices since the selection was something I could quite literally not get anywhere else, plus the £/$ usually took the edge off.

 

That isn't really the case now.

 

I still buy clothes from bricks and mortar shops pretty regularly and will often buy items that are made in Japan or the US, but the mark up has to be justifiable. An extra £15 on a Gitman Brothers or OrSlow shirt? Fine. An extra £150 on a pair of jeans? I can't afford to do that.

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Tilmann,

 

Here are measurements from my size 33 FC 0105 13.7 oz.  The first measurements are after soaking once, wearing, and stretching.  The second are later, after three washes, one full dry in the dryer, but no stretching.  While the dryer contributes to the smaller measurements, of course, I think these will stretch back out significantly after one or two wears.

 

John

 

Size 33, post soak, worn, stretched:

 

Waist:  36"

FR:      12.25"

BR:      17.25"

Thigh:  13.5"

Knee:    9.75"

LO:        9.0"

 

Size 33, 3 washes, 1 dryer, not stretched

 

Waist:  34.0"

FR:      11.75"

BR:      16.625"

Thigh:   13.0"

Knee:    9.5"

LO:       8.875"

Inseam:  34.0" (after hemming)

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FWIW, the top block of the FC 0105 is about as comfortable as any pair of jeans I've owned.  I'm a size 34 or 35 in most jeans but my 105's are 33 (thanks to lots of advice here).  The main reason this works is that the 13.7 oz. denim is stretchy and conforming.  But it's also true that the cut of the top block is excellent.  The higher back rise adds to comfort (hoggreaser) without messing up the look of the jeans since the front rise isn't that high and the top block is conforming and trim in the smaller size.

 

From the knee down the 0105 is a little wide but not so much so that it bugs me.  As comfortable as the 0105 is on me, I probably prefer the overall, trimmer line of the 1101.

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