New Denim Company Would love your opinions

[Matt_L_Gabriel]

Good Day Everyone,

First off I would like to say thank you to all the members I have sent personal e-mails to about sourcing, you have been very helpfull and to those I have not gotten back to it's been quite a long month and I will be contacting you shortly.

I've been a lurker on this forum for quite some time and have found it to be very informative and helpfull so I figured I would finally do a little post to find out what are some of your expert opinions on some of the little things.

A little under a year ago my fiance and I both having relevant backgrounds and a love of denim started a denim company, Twenty-Three brand jeans and have worked up all of our business proposals and samples ect in that time. Well we are always perfecting our cuts and our trim choices and such so that is where I figured all of your help might come in. I would like your general opinions on where you like rivet placement and what size of rivets and whether invisible or not. Or what color of denim you look for, and what colors and size and stich length of thread you prefer. whether you like waste band tags or embroidery on back pockets, and how large of a waisteband you prefer. Or what your favorite cut is for men's or women's as we do both. Whether you look for raw denim, or if you like a slight wash or distressed jean every once in a while. Just the basics, or more in detail if you'd like.

We are based out of Los Angeles Ca, both of us young looking to capatilize off the markets that companies like Nudie and Earnest have had such success with. Any help you can offer would be much appreciated. And yes I will post up some pictures when I get the time.

Thanks alot in advance guys.

Matt Gabriel

Twenty-Three Brand Jeans

[constant struggle]

raw, slim/skinny cuts, minimal back pocket, i like 34" inseam, i dont mind prewashs, if there is no distressing, (aka a solid color).. i wear between 31-32

[Matt_L_Gabriel]

Keep them coming the more information the better.

[artificialsky]

listen carefully.

copy the dior cut. no branding. no washes. no distressing. make them cheaper than the diors.

but you'll probably end up doing wack embroidery and 24k gold square rivets or something anyways...

[Dex_star]

no contrast stitching

[jeepster]

Based on your comparision to Nudie or Ernest Sewn as your elder peers, I'd say go in the opposite direction of these brands. Try not to make overpriced but poor quality denim that lacks in style. Try to go a step ahead. Offer a simpler, more inexpensive, everyday style of jeans that will be accesibly to everyone. Look tot he model of Cheap Monday, but capitalize on the premium denim market in such a way that brings in stylish and young consumers that will buy up your products. Skinny jeans are in, but don't stray to far from the basics - create a standard cut, offer a baggier cut, offer a skinnier cut, and offer a premium version of whichever cut you deem the most appropriate. Levi's has worked of the same basic jean cut for a good long while now, and its still proving to be effective. Personally, I'd like to see skinny jeans more akin to the Dior Homme or Ivalease Homme 19cm cut, but there should be more option to as how they come - light weight denims, raw, simple distressing (nothing that is gauche or ugly like some brands pump out and call "cutting edge"), even selvage if you can do it. Try to set yourself apart while not alienating the market.

[Tyro1]

Use japanese raw slevage denim, slim cuts, medium rise, high quality construction - this board will love you...

[Tyro1]

but then no one will recognise your jeans, and the mass market wont buy them, do you want to be niche or you wanna make some $$$?

[LIVENUDEGIRLS]

Use japanese raw slevage denim, slim cuts, medium rise, high quality construction - this board will love you...

+1

and please make models with bucklebacks, crotch and hidden rivets.

[Matt_L_Gabriel]

artificialsky, I agree that the Dior cut is amazing and I apreciate you suggestions. I firmly believe in minimalism when it comes to denim. I wear raw, I prefer most rivets to be hidden and I like my back pocket embroidery to be minimal. To everyone else as a reply to artificialsky, I am very serious about what I do and would like to believe I am very good at it as well. So please take a minute to give suggestions or ask about our preference on things before making the assumption that I'm a gaudy business owner who's looking to mass produce and sell to the forever 21 crowd of the world. Though I would love to make a nice living off what I'm doing, anyone who says they don't probably has a screw or two loose, but I never said I wanted to hit the rock and republic market. We make high quality selvedge jeans, and please don't immediately assume that your suggestions are just piss in the wind. I listen, because nobody knows denim like you guys do. So artificial sky you have my word no gold rivets or crazy Victoria Beckham embroidery. Thanks again guys and keep them coming.

[Matt_L_Gabriel]

Sorry about the miss spelling of selvage it's been a long day...

[jeepster]

to further elaborate - don't ever try to market to that set because in honesty, it makes up less than a percent of the people who buy jeans, and i'm glad you acknowledge that. keep the cuts silhouetted and make sure that women are offered just as nice cuts/styles as men because i know a lot of my lady friends complain that when i come in with a nice pair of raw jeans they always demand to know if they come in women's sizes.

and in terms of production - don't be mass, but be accesible. its a pain in the ass going through ratuken fronts or proxies to get nice jap. jeans, or other foreign jeans. i know there are lawsuits and such that prevent some of the japanese companies, but in honesty, regardless of those, getting ones hands on a pair of sammies or FH's is equivalent to giving up an arm and a leg sometimes (i'm sure people on here will vouch for that)

[wEstSidE]

Minimalism is cool, obviously. It seems that you're trying to make jeans for the SuFu market. artificialsky is basically right about what will sell to this particular market. Most people like the Dior patterns, but don't like the price and denim used. If you copied the cut and used better denim at a lower price point (not all that tough to do, really), then your company would do quite well. I would probably buy from you if you did. I think my all time favorites in terms of styling are APC NS. I like Japanese denim and the attention to detail, but it's generally trying to have a repro style. Unlike most, I like the silver-colored rivets on APCs and the relaxed, but slim cut.

I think a cool idea for a pair would be to have black denim with black topstitching all around or indigo denim with navy topstitching. It could be sleek.

[unklesteve]

I'm particularly enamoured of the "less is more" aesthetic in all things.

I know what brand my jeans are. I don't give a flying rats ass if anyone else can tell by looking at my ass. But I want to be so enamoured of them that I feel compelled to TELL people about them, every chance I get.

I would almost say put your branding on the inside of them, and keep the outside as simple and clutter-free as possible. No arcuates, or uber-minimal.

And make them stiffer than a preacher in a whorehouse. I want my Flat Heads to feel like a baby's ass by comparison.

Good luck with the whole thing, and remember: it's personality, style, and quality that sell a product. And all three are equally important. I come from a marketing/branding background so if you need any help in that department feel free to drop me a line. Will work for denim.

S

[tangerine]

Use japanese raw slevage denim, slim cuts, medium rise, high quality construction - this board will love you...

...I firmly believe in minimalism when it comes to denim...

That's it in a nutshell. If you want to have a distinguishing feature, I suggest something hidden; interesting pocket bags or embossed donut buttons, something along those lines; nothing overt.

edited to add, I see unklesteve said pretty much the same thing about the hidden branding, nice!

[jours]

Make baggy overdistressed denim with huuuuuge leg openings. With lots of dragon embroidery or maybe some Looney Tunes screenprints.

[dennisk]

Make baggy overdistressed denim with huuuuuge leg openings. With lots of dragon embroidery or maybe some Looney Tunes screenprints.

haahahahahaha man you're so funny. good one good one.

[Matt_L_Gabriel]

I really appreciate all the info guys so keep it coming the insight of the market is key. But on another note I agree with most of your opinions that less is more in most places. as for the comment on womens sizes, we are producing both womens jeans and mens jeans so the sizing and cuts will be different on each, as for unklesteve's remark on working for denim, if any of you have any amazing talents (great photoshop artist are always appreciated) and are willing to work for denim let me know what you can do, we can always take all the help we can get. Thanks guys.

[mrpenguin354]

+1 on the high quality denim and the dior cuts.

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet. but a nice leather patch is a must.

[Matt_L_Gabriel]

Jours, Amazing idea!!!! maybe I can get Ashlee Simpson to wear them too. Your the best.

[Matt_L_Gabriel]

mrpenguin354, Quality denim is a key I agree, right now I have had luck sourcing really high quality and amazing italian denim, I've had luck finding and using some quality japanese denim as well, we've worked making raw 100% bamboo jeans as well though it's really difficult to work with.

[jeepster]

one more thing (before i go to bed cause AP tests are going to destroy me tmr)

make it accesible and on an easy to interact basis. don't be like SelfEdge or Blue in Green and only offer select denims in one shop on opposing ends of the country. Have an online store, license it to boutiques and other stores, and make sure that it can be found (i'd rather try on a pair before i buy them, you know how it is). though you are going to be premium denim, make sure that your product distribution accomodates the customer as well, because if it does, more likely than not, they will always come back for more.

[poly800rock]

+1 on the high quality denim and the dior cuts.

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet. but a nice leather patch is a must.

won't copying dior cuts completely fuck you in the long run of being dior ripoffs? if you're serious about your own branding which it's obvious you are, i'd basically avoid copying anyone's cuts.

personally, i'd love american made everything. but realize cost is a factor as well. good luck!

[dry the rain]

please please please pay attention to the back pocket size, shape, and placement. i honestly won't wear apc because i don't like what they've done with the back pockets. for some reason i'm really on about this lately, but i feel the most flattering thing for all is minimal space between the pockets and a generally vertical (rather than diagonal) orientation when they're on somebody.

high quality denim is certainly key. if you have some sort of tasteful identifying marker, go for it. i mean, people flipped their shit for the dior scar. the thing is, i certainly can't think of anything that would match it. then again, i never would have thought of the scar in the first place and maybe you have an idea.

minimalism is good, but that doesn't mean you should take all personality out of the jeans.

and i'll restate it because it's true: if you make a cut similar to dior with better denim and a lower price point (and bigger pockets for me personally) i'll be all over it along with half of this board.

oh, make sure your sizing is consistent and you have denim that isn't super stretchy (apc style stretchy or CM style stretchy). it sucks when your jeans are impossible at first and falling off you a week later. and it also sucks when your jeans feel like leggings.

also, give away a pair to the first twenty people that offer you honest advice.

[poly800rock]

please please please pay attention to the back pocket size, shape, and placement.

+1 on this. sometimes i feel like backpockets break a deal for me.

[Tyro1]

If you want to have a distinguishing feature, I suggest something hidden; interesting pocket bags or embossed donut buttons, something along those lines; nothing overt.

Tange is right about the distinguishing features, I would also suggest black rivets, Different styled fastening, along the lines of dior's clip, but different...

Also the point abou the leather patch is important, maybe a cloth patch, or balck leather, etc

[Matt_L_Gabriel]

Though I do like the Dior cut we have our own cuts that we have designed and like to think have perfected (they're my favorite jeans...lol), I'm not out to be blatantly copying anyone. And though I do believe in minimalism I also agree that personality is important as well. As for the accessibility, I have a background in manufacturing, distribution, and sales, and my better half's background is in fashion. So I am keen on how to make a product accessible without mass producing and bastardizing the brand integrity. You'll be able to find the same style in Los Angeles and New York. As for being made in America I'm with you on that one and trying to make that happen (my fingers are crossed) but as with anything cost becomes an issue and if I have to produce outside of the U.S. I am considering my options in places that can meet my high product quality needs without completely killing there employees in the process though we are not a social or enviromental brand. and dry the rain, I don't like super stretchy either, but I like a little bit so thats what we've gone with though we will have offering that are 100% organic with no stretch, and back pockets are a deal breaker and I like to think that we've got that placement down as well. Keep them coming guys I really appreciate all of this.

[Lucas0607]

Don't make it super commercial, thus losing its appeal.

[Matt_L_Gabriel]

I agree that black rivets look good on mens jeans especially when the denim is darker, and as for patches I've been working on some for quite some time that I'll post in another thread to get your opinions on. As for commerciality, I'd like to make money but I understand the necessity of being exclusive and retaining that exclusivity. These are all great guys...I welcome any thoughts.

[homme.homme]

long inseam... 36"

P.S. easy availability in australia!