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Pete Doherty - Icon or Accidental Star?

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I'm a fan of some Libertines stuff. This video sometimes rips me apart. If you have seen the Libertines when they started and how close Pete and Carl were (pretty much always sharing a mic), then the stuff that transpired and the song that came of it. This is them performing and you can see a HUGE difference in the way they feel about each other (and with subsequent lyric changes during live shows).

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This is from NME and it seems to me it was only a one show thing, both are into thier own projects and dont' plan to play anymore shows together

http://libertines.twinkling-star.com/nme280407petecarlint.html

god i hate bono and u2 (its great his saving the world but he's not a rockstar and they haven't even had a decent record since joshua tree)

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well i found an incredibly stark but touching documentary that aired a little while ago on the BBC about pete, and i thought it shed more light on how human he can be. the man is truly talented and he is debatably stoned through most of it, but theres no denying his prowess. he's a pretty sharp dresser, just wish he would look like he showered more.

wd2sxpPUeh8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wd2sxpPUeh8, the link for the other parts are in the description

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he is an icon for all adults who look like babies.

that must be why i like him. my face hasn't changed since i was 3 except now i can grow a beard

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amazing how you can miss the point of his music. nobody listens to him because he smokes or does 'narcotics'.

how you can even compare him to your own homemade abortions is sickening

who cares if you yanks forget him you're all a lost cause anyway

I haven't missed the point of his music, I read all the lyrics when I first listened to it. Nothing original, nothing that hasn't been said before. If you don't think his pseudo-edgy lifestyle is NOT part of the reason that he attracts certain fans, you're blind.... it's the same "I want to be dangerous" attitude that made the Stones big, back when they were shit faced all the time... except now it's just unoriginal....

You are 100% right - American pop music is complete and total garbage, fueled by greed, materialism and shallow ideals..... can I take a minute to point out to the top 10 singles in the UK this week:

  • BEYONCE & SHAKIRA - BEAUTIFUL LIAR
  • TIMBALAND / FURTADO / TIMBERLAKE -GIVE IT TO ME
  • AVRIL LAVIGNE -GIRLFRIEND
  • NE-YO -BECAUSE OF YOU
  • MARK RONSON FT D MERRIWEATHER -STOP ME
  • MIKA - LOVE TODAY
  • ARCTIC MONKEYS -BRIANSTORM
  • GYM CLASS HEROES -CUPID'S CHOKEHOLD
  • NATASHA BEDINGFIELD -I WANNA HAVE YOUR BABIES
  • TRAVIS -CLOSER

(Gwen Stegani, Fall Out Boy and Linkin Park were also in your top 20)

Looks like the Brits are just loving all this American-made shit music that makes you so sick.... funny, aye?

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god i hate bono and u2 (its great his saving the world but he's not a rockstar and they haven't even had a decent record since joshua tree)

Preach on! ;)

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Guest itsmeJT
I haven't missed the point of his music, I read all the lyrics when I first listened to it. Nothing original, nothing that hasn't been said before. If you don't think his pseudo-edgy lifestyle is NOT part of the reason that he attracts certain fans, you're blind.... it's the same "I want to be dangerous" attitude that made the Stones big, back when they were shit faced all the time... except now it's just unoriginal....

You are 100% right - American pop music is complete and total garbage, fueled by greed, materialism and shallow ideals..... can I take a minute to point out to the top 10 singles in the UK this week:

  • BEYONCE & SHAKIRA - BEAUTIFUL LIAR
  • TIMBALAND / FURTADO / TIMBERLAKE -GIVE IT TO ME
  • AVRIL LAVIGNE -GIRLFRIEND
  • NE-YO -BECAUSE OF YOU
  • MARK RONSON FT D MERRIWEATHER -STOP ME
  • MIKA - LOVE TODAY
  • ARCTIC MONKEYS -BRIANSTORM
  • GYM CLASS HEROES -CUPID'S CHOKEHOLD
  • NATASHA BEDINGFIELD -I WANNA HAVE YOUR BABIES
  • TRAVIS -CLOSER

(Gwen Stegani, Fall Out Boy and Linkin Park were also in your top 20)

Looks like the Brits are just loving all this American-made shit music that makes you so sick.... funny, aye?

people are stupid, well done for pointing out the obvious.

it makes me want to indiscriminantly stop the problem at the source with a huge nuclear device

perhaps it wouldnt remedy the problem of stupidity but hey at least we'd be rid of all those pesky americans

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You sound like the UK version of some dumbass redneck from the US talking shit about those damn brits or frogs across the pond. There's good music on both sides and that's pretty obvious.

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You sound like the UK version of some dumbass redneck from the US talking shit about those damn brits or frogs across the pond. There's good music on both sides and that's pretty obvious.

Not to mention that itsmeJT's idea of the best of his precious UK music scene is evidently rammed down his neck by the NME and it's other media cohorts.

It also wouldn't surprise me if his idea of a good Friday night was hanging round talking pretentious hipster bullshit with his wannabe friend in some pub on Curtain Road, Shoreditch a la Nathan Barley.

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Guest itsmeJT
Not to mention that itsmeJT's idea of the best of his precious UK music scene is evidently rammed down his neck by the NME and it's other media cohorts.

It also wouldn't surprise me if his idea of a good Friday night was hanging round talking pretentious hipster bullshit with his wannabe friend in some pub on Curtain Road, Shoreditch a la Nathan Barley.

it wouldnt surprise me if your idea of a good friday night was having sex with a smelly goth and then spooning him as it dies today play in the background

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harking for the good old days? these are the good old days

...because there were no good old days

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amazing how you can miss the point of his music. nobody listens to him because he smokes or does 'narcotics'.

how you can even compare him to your own homemade abortions is sickening

who cares if you yanks forget him you're all a lost cause anyway

i like the libs enough. not the second coming mind you. but his drug problems and hijinx have helped him sell records. his music doesnt exist in a vaccum that only judges talent without noteriety.

but what i would like to know is how you can type with mr. doherty's cock in your mouth? do you work for nme?

I haven't missed the point of his music, I read all the lyrics when I first listened to it. Nothing original, nothing that hasn't been said before. If you don't think his pseudo-edgy lifestyle is NOT part of the reason that he attracts certain fans, you're blind.... it's the same "I want to be dangerous" attitude that made the Stones big, back when they were shit faced all the time... except now it's just unoriginal....

exactly. his personal problems have added to his fame and are certainly part of his appeal. dont be so naive to think it isnt a factor (just like johnny thunders, kurt cobain, burroughs and all the other junkie artists).

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I already posted this in the best youtube videos .....

ten years ago:

Quba72Xli8o

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I already posted this in the best youtube videos .....

ten years ago:

Quba72Xli8o

HAH! thats crazy. the height of britpop, and doherty is a young kid. priceless. whoda thunk that his band(s) would be lightyears more advanced and infinitely better than oasis. i wonder where carl was at this time.

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HAH! thats crazy. the height of britpop, and doherty is a young kid. priceless. whoda thunk that his band(s) would be lightyears more advanced and infinitely better than oasis. i wonder where carl was at this time.

there is no way libertines/babyshambles/doherty is remotely close to as good anything either of the galahger brothers have done. everything doherty has done, liam already did, 10 years earlier...

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I like his clothes, style, and how he owns it.
the guy does dress so fucking well. Great style

i like how you said that twice... within the span of a month

polyrock - what i've come to learn about oasis is how blantently lucky they got. everyone around england at the time when they came out thought they were shit, its only that because they got a damn good record deal that they blew up. blur thought they were shit, suede thought they were shit, pulp thought they were shit, elastica thought they were shit. there were few, if anyone around that thought they were any good when they came out. honestly its because their just a rehash of post-psychedelic hard rock from the late 60's, early 70's, just dressed up like a bunch of manchester bums and started going around yelling about how "all the other bands were shit" people started going to their shows because noel and liam were already infamous for fighting onstage, and it was entertaining. they lost the battle for britpop to "country house" but only went on to find relative success in the US because they were marketed as the forefront of what was going on in the UK music scene. no one in the UK music scene really had any love for them until 96 or 97 when they began to actually write songs. everything they've done is by the good graces of their record company, and their publicist. theres nothing spectacular about them and musically, their simple and trite. were from the moment they started. everything that liam did, the beatles and rolling stones did 25 years earlier, much better.

the libertines and babyshambles are a little more diverse in their sound, and luckily both carl barat and pete doherty can write a song. i can't say DPT are very good, but babyshambles are smartly produced and doherty writes great songs. the gallaghers have "wonderwall".

i bite my thump at you sir.

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isn't that the whole point of the thread though? accidental star or not? it's not like pulp, blur, elastica, suede weren't all fighting for the top spots. any and all publicity is better than none as case and point jarvis and the whole michael jackson ordeal. I'm not saying Oasis are the most important band of the last 30 years or whatever, they write decent catchy tunes (Oasis' columbia rivals that of Boys and Girls or Common People, regardless if you want to admit it or not), but they did have some merit. You can group all the heavy 90's hitters in the same category, but to put a band like the libertines in the same league as suede, pulp, oasis, and blur is to do all those bands a huge disservice.

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isn't that the whole point of the thread though? accidental star or not? it's not like pulp, blur, elastica, suede weren't all fighting for the top spots. any and all publicity is better than none as case and point jarvis and the whole michael jackson ordeal. I'm not saying Oasis are the most important band of the last 30 years or whatever, they write decent catchy tunes (Oasis' columbia rivals that of Boys and Girls or Common People, regardless if you want to admit it or not), but they did have some merit. You can group all the heavy 90's hitters in the same category, but to put a band like the libertines in the same league as suede, pulp, oasis, and blur is to do all those bands a huge disservice.

well, im glad you understood that not as an attack on you. most times someone would.

anyways, i didnt group them within the same context as the aforementioned groups. i merely said that they were a much better, and far from mediocre band. personally, oasis aren't anything to write home about, but i'd rather hear about the libertines or babyshambles for the pure story telling. i feel like oasis missed the point and made their music too dumb and loud, while doherty & the gang wrote more from a place of observation, very much in the tradition of the kinks or Them. its apparently that british music is always self referential to its past, but i do not think in any way that doherty or his bands have fallen into fame accidentally. thats my take. he's far to smart and talented to be a fluke.

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it's such different stuff. no one will argue that oasis wasn't a blatent beatles ripoff, but dumb and loud? they were signed to creation post MBV....it's good to have this discussion though, i think one thing we both agree on is that the british press magnified everything both bands did.

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it's such different stuff. no one will argue that oasis wasn't a blatent beatles ripoff, but dumb and loud? they were signed to creation post MBV....it's good to have this discussion though, i think one thing we both agree on is that the british press magnified everything both bands did.

true. but when creation signed them, their owner alan mcgee was on a infinite coke binge and did it to spite blur who were rubbing Modern Life is Rubbish cult success in his face. suede came to hear them, said they were shit, jarvis didnt want anything to do with them, and morissey thought they were a bunch of retards. originally the press made fun of them because one of the members was bald. me, im not suede, or morrisey fan, but they were both prominent and much loved british bands (smiths/morrisey respectively apart and what not), and stephen street resigned not to even enter the frey when they asked him to come aboard as a producer. i think creation wanted to go in the complete opposite direction after Loveless considering it put them $622,000 USD in debt (something like 250000 pounds sterling at the time), not to mention that they were already 1.2 million pounds sterling in debt from poor publishing deals and alan mcgee's insatiable love of coccaine. by going in the exact opposite direction of Primal Scream and MBV (Jesus & Mary Chain had since become a minor fixture) they were able to exploit a fluke, which in that lies, Oasis. starting with an aggressive marketing plan, and pushing them onto london, the manchester boys were quickly greeted with further disdain and hatred by the britpop elite - Blur and the like - but were cast in the light of rock royalty before they were even big. Oasis had to have truly been a fluke because otherwise, how do you account for a record album? no one liked them for the longest time and then just like poof, their huge? lucky if there ever was anything. right band at the right time. doesnt help that damon was an asshole though haah

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god, i love Down in Albionits pretty well put together for an addict.

i like how theres a very distinct britishness to all the music that the libertines and babyshambles put out. very much a hark back to the beatles and early british rock

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I would absolutely put the Libs in the same league as Pukp, Blur, whatever, strictly comparing at the same stage of development. They are two albums in, both brilliant, both quite successful. I think they are less accessible than pulp were, which hurts them on billboard, but if they had stayed together and put out more material I think they could have been the biggets band in the U.K, no quesiton.

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I would absolutely put the Libs in the same league as Pukp, Blur, whatever, strictly comparing at the same stage of development. They are two albums in, both brilliant, both quite successful. I think they are less accessible than pulp were, which hurts them on billboard, but if they had stayed together and put out more material I think they could have been the biggets band in the U.K, no quesiton.

i can see what you're saying, but in honesty, pulp and blur came from completely different musical backgrounds. pulp started at the beginning of the new wave period, while blur came out of the tailend of the shoegaze period. both bands are distinct in their own ways, but they evolved in such different ways as the libertines did. plus they never relied on a more singer-songwriter basis that the libertines did. the libertines were a duo who just happened to have a punk rock band - in terms of writing the music that is. pulp is more based around Jarvis, and blur were always a cohesive band. all great, but in terms of evolution they were very disapparate.

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a great read:

51BNGA00V4L._AA240_.jpg

its sitting on my nightstand right now. its great, but it assumes that you're very familiar with british culture already, which is a problem, because there are a lot of references that i've had to look up after reading.

proves that oasis, blur, suede, and elastica were all assholes haha

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