Lee 101b's

[tweeds]

The longitudinal edges of a fabric that are formed during weaving with the weft not only turning at the edges but also passing continuously across the width of the fabric from edge.

NOTE: Selvedges are often up to 20mm wide and may differ from the body of the fabric in construction or weave or both, or they may be of exactly the same construction as the body of the fabric and be separated from it by yarns of a different colour. Although selvedges may contain fancy effects or may have brand names or fabric descriptions woven into or printed on them, their main purposes is to give strength to the edges of the fabric so that it will behave satisfactorily in weaving and subsequent processes.

a) Leno Edge

A set of threads that interlace with a leno weave (q.v.) either at the edge or in the body of a fabric. In the latter case, it prevents fraying when the fabric is severed in the direction of the warp.

NOTE: When in the body of the fabric, a leno edge is often referred to as a "central selvedge". (See also splits).

Sealed Edge

The cut edge of a fabric that has been treated by heat or chemical means to prevent fraying of the edge.

c) Shuttleless-Loom Edge

1. In some cases, either one or both edges are different from the normal woven selvedge in that the weft is held in position at the turn by threads other than the warp threads, e.g. by the use of an independent thread to lock the weft in position at the edge, or by interlocking of the weft threads. In narrow-fabric weaving this type of edge is often called a "needleloom selvedge".

2. In other cases, the weft is severed just beyond the edge of the fabric and the cut end is tucked into the shed (q.v.) formed on the next pick.[/i]

wow snuggles that is alot of searching up. also good deal of thought there...

you might be right, there's a great deal of history in weaving and perhaps some of these terms were later extended to include more modern finishes or techniques. perhaps somebody familiar with weaving could enlighten.

it seems that the jet-loom selvedge may also be termed a central selvedge, where the finish is applied midway through the fabric and the remaining yarns are severed in the direction of the warp...something new learnt every day.

the thanks should go to CAFC the original poster, whose thread we completely hijacked.

[swisloc]

i think one reason for that is the lack of awareness. superfuture is really quite faddish and the mad denim rushes came one after the other (ringring mentioned PBJ, everyone wanted a pair of XX-005, someone bought a SD-103, everyone wanted a pair...etc), so until somebody really in the know about Full Count posts something the awareness here will remain small, zimbabwe cotton or not.

the irony is, a cheaper denim like APC has fully felled inseams but not the more expensive japanese brands. perhaps there's some sort of tradition behind the overlocked inseam as well?

i certainly agree about the faddish nature of this forum, but as most of the product discussed is word of mouth, it probably can't be helped. Second, you're right... a true repro would not have a felled inseam (as the originals did not), which is probably why the japanese brands don't do it. however, most of those brands have strayed from the the details at least (if not the cuts) of true repro in other areas, so why not throw in a felled inseam, it looks better and is better construction. incidentally, 5EP does a felled inseam, currently my favorite brand.

kudos, snuggle, good research! unfortunately i'd have to disagree on assuming a syntax (like using selvage to mean one particular type of selvage) only because it does in fact limit the scope of what we consider "good denim" and leads to the ubiquitous, "but is it selvage?" question. but that's just my take... and also, if anyone wants to see different types of selvages as described above, just go to a good fabric store where the fabric is still on the bolts. they all have selvages (mostly from high capacity jet-looms, too).

sorry about the hijacking CAFC... we should make this it's own thread i guess...

[Neilfuji]

the thing is, the above photo is a fake half-selvage. half selvage jeans certainly exist (old lees used a half selvage -- serge's old signature), but these are not them -- they're just a standard jet loom denim, cut off on both sides, but they've thrown some different colored yarns into the mix on one side to fool you. both sides should be overlock stitched to prevent unraveling, but again, they're attempting to convince you that the denim is something it's not.

HURRAY....

someone else has noticed the use of faux-selvage, looking at the colour and the heavy starching I'd say Mexico or India as the loomed state, the through thread is a giveaway and the fact that it's a 'big' company with out the inhouse skills to understand selvage as anything other than a sells tool

Neil

[Neilfuji]

agreed. she makes a lot of clothes. i'm trying to convince her to make me jeans.

yeah, i feel the same way even though i know better. although, i must say, most of the brands that interest me with high quality yarns and dyes also offer full selvage outseams, so...

definitely. this is why i've never understood why a company like FULLCOUNT doesn't get more play as they market themselves on their yarn quality (zimbabwe cotton). I think i've seen maybe two posts of people who've bought their jeans. then you have to also include construction. if we appreciate the finished quality a full selvage outseam offers, than shouldn't we appreaciate a felled inseam as well? this is another point that ringring always used to harp on. very few companies do it, and as far as i know, none of the prized japanese companies; they all do overlocked inseams.

Fullcount is one of the most over looked J-Denim companies, mainly from poor sales advice and a time scale that puts them on the back foot in the high end stakes... in the UK there market position has been ruined and there fore the product image has droped.

for the money and the product one of the better companies out there. I will say this not just about fullcount but the whole denim business, just becase there Zimbabwe on the label it does not mean it's the best crop of from the better farms

Neil

[Paul T]

That is, strictly speaking, selvage. But I would call it open selvage.

As has been pointed out a million times, projective loom denim doesn't have to be inferior quality. Hisotrically of course there's a reason why it was seen as inferior - when some jeans companies switched to projectile selvage, they also moved to ring/oe, and lowered the quality of the stitching and the dying.

Those Lee reissues fade REALLY NICELy, maybe not quite as nice as the previous few models, but to be fair every time they lower the quality on those jeans, at least they lower the price too.

[CAFC]

wow snuggles that is alot of searching up. also good deal of thought there...

you might be right, there's a great deal of history in weaving and perhaps some of these terms were later extended to include more modern finishes or techniques. perhaps somebody familiar with weaving could enlighten.

it seems that the jet-loom selvedge may also be termed a central selvedge, where the finish is applied midway through the fabric and the remaining yarns are severed in the direction of the warp...something new learnt every day.

the thanks should go to CAFC the original poster, whose thread we completely hijacked.

Hey, no sweat. I'm just happy to soak up the knowledge!

[LeicaLad]

This is such a great thread. The discussion of the textile, both from the standpoint of the weaving production AND from the qualitative aspect of the actual yarn used, IS of great interest. Me thinks more would care, if exposed. It would be really useful if TIP or another moderator would duplicate this thread (renaming it in the process) and append it into the encyclopedia thread under the Quality of Denim section.

I’d also really appreciate any and all further discussions about the actual quality of jeans available, again both from the construction standpoint and the quality textile used.

HUGE Thanks to you all in this thread!

[orrangepants]

I've got a pair of the Lee 101b repros by Lee Europe (NOT the Gold label - see link below), and am totally digging the loose-ish straight fit and the way they've faded.

Which other jeans have a similar fit?