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Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

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To put it simply...no. It's so weird that the once buyer-beware mentality that came with buying second-hand things online has simply gone away. People got comfortable with hassling poor retail employees until they got what they want, and now those same people try to use their techniques online. Not to mention, large online marketplaces like amazon and ebay allow you to just return things without a valid reason. I've had my fair share of things refunded on eBay, and they have come back in worse condition then when I sent them out.

Edited by Suitedupmon

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6 minutes ago, SuperJackle said:

So guys, I have a sort of... am I the asshole(?) kind of posts. 
 

Sold a shirt online, provided measurements in listing. Buyer requests refund, stating that, and I quote: “Didn’t fit how a medium should fit“. For whatever reason, ebay said I was under no obligation to refund his money, and I could close the refund. If you all are more or less familiar with how ebay usually works, even if you don’t accept returns, they will bully your ass around until you refund the buyer, plain and simple. Decided that I will close the return, citing that proper measurements were provided in listing. Buyer gets mad at this point and escalated to a paypal claim.  So I provided pictures and documentation of the listing and showed that I had provided measurements, and my defense was that the responsibility of checking measurements falls on the buyer.
 

Fast forward a week, in a surprising move, paypal ruled in my favor and closed the case. I’ve seen in many threads where ebay/paypal almost always sides with the buyer because of eBay’s “money back guarantee”, even if the seller doesn’t accept returns. Anyway, you guys think that was an asshole move to not accept the return? I provided measurements, but he said it “didn’t fit like a medium should, and that I should have indicated so” 

you're in the right, i would do the same thing in your position

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I don't see anything wrong with what you did. He should've paid closer attention to the measurements.

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I thought I was in the right as well. Was honestly expecting paypal to de facto side with the buyer. At least the buyer didn’t try to take a sharpie to the shirt and then return it! I’ve lately been taking pictures of the whole process of boxing up the item, shipping out etc. just never know what kind of crap people will pull. 

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I wear everything from XS to L depending on the brand and type of item... What body type must this stranger have that he can claim a universal medium fit? Lol 

Anyone who doesn't check measurements should deal with the consequences. It's basically a rite of passage for those of us on here lol

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3 hours ago, Coolguyzack said:

I wear everything from XS to L depending on the brand and type of item... What body type must this stranger have that he can claim a universal medium fit? Lol 

Anyone who doesn't check measurements should deal with the consequences. It's basically a rite of passage for those of us on here lol

This kind of thinking happens all the time. I’ve straight up have had weird arguments with people who have refused to try on a size that was different from their size 32 or Medium. 
 

 

3 hours ago, SuperJackle said:

I thought I was in the right as well. Was honestly expecting paypal to de facto side with the buyer. At least the buyer didn’t try to take a sharpie to the shirt and then return it! I’ve lately been taking pictures of the whole process of boxing up the item, shipping out etc. just never know what kind of crap people will pull. 

im glad that PayPal dispute when your way. I’ve had to refund my fair share of stuff from people who just lie about the condition of the thing i sold so they could get their refund. It sucks. One guy spent a Couple weeks trying to flip a pair of pants he bought from me and then when it wasn’t successful, he said that i had altered the waist band of the Jean to give more favorable measurements or some shit like that. PayPal sided with him and i ended up paying money to have it shipped back to me along with the refund. 

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2 hours ago, CASSAVA PIECE said:

xs-l ? your body type seems much more interesting

Put me in that category as well... I'm usually a medium, but small in one iron heart shirt and xl in nine lives 

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^ same.. I have three close-fitting Iron Heart T-shirts I wear with an IH "shacket" – the T's are M, while the jacket is an XXL. No way I could fit anything as bulky as a sweatshirt under that thing. Think I bought it off eBay; you can bet I paid close attention to the measurements and skulked around the "extinct" pages of the IH forum...

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3 hours ago, CASSAVA PIECE said:

xs-l ? your body type seems much more interesting

A Japanese domestic brand's medium is very different from say... a Tommy Bahama medium.

I'm also skinny and tall, so I don't scale well with most size runs. Like at Jcrew I'm both a tall small and a slim medium lol

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9 hours ago, SuperJackle said:

So guys, I have a sort of... am I the asshole(?) kind of posts. 
 

Sold a shirt online, provided measurements in listing. Buyer requests refund, stating that, and I quote: “Didn’t fit how a medium should fit“. For whatever reason, ebay said I was under no obligation to refund his money, and I could close the refund. If you all are more or less familiar with how ebay usually works, even if you don’t accept returns, they will bully your ass around until you refund the buyer, plain and simple. Decided that I will close the return, citing that proper measurements were provided in listing. Buyer gets mad at this point and escalated to a paypal claim.  So I provided pictures and documentation of the listing and showed that I had provided measurements, and my defense was that the responsibility of checking measurements falls on the buyer.
 

Fast forward a week, in a surprising move, paypal ruled in my favor and closed the case. I’ve seen in many threads where ebay/paypal almost always sides with the buyer because of eBay’s “money back guarantee”, even if the seller doesn’t accept returns. Anyway, you guys think that was an asshole move to not accept the return? I provided measurements, but he said it “didn’t fit like a medium should, and that I should have indicated so” 

Don't lose sleep over this, you did it all by the book, its nice to hear that ebay has supported a seller for a change..

Ive had some bust'ups with ebay over the years so i fucked it off, first one was around 2010... some dude who bought a pair of my BR chinos claimed he found a mark on them (but failed to send photographic evidence) so he took it upon himself to wash them with a StainDevil (chemical stain remover) this didn't work so he bought some Vanish and scrubbed the stain, this didn't work either and left a white circle so he wanted to return them for a full refund. Ebay backed him all the way, even though i protested "So i can buy a painting from ebay or...say a car, find a small mark, scrub it with paint stripper fucking it up in the process and simply send it back for a full refund" it'd be called vandalism in any other language...
 
Second time i was selling a power amp from an obscure British manufacturer so i added some key works (other amp manufacturers) to up my listing (i didn't know this was wrong at the time) it was within hours of the sale ending and for a great fucking price too and ebay removed it. I went fucking ape-shit and ebay said keyword listing was 'unethical' so i sent them an email saying don't lecture me about ethics ebay.. you profit from the sale of Nazi memorabilia, t-shirts bearing the swastika and 'Jim'll Fix It' badges (the predatory pedophile) and sent them links to their own listings.
I said "you should get your own house in order before you accuse me of being unethical" ...they replied by saying that my listing (with numerous great photo's) could be misconstrued as something else.. so i sent them 100's of links to ebay sales for fake Nike trainers saying if you're so worried about folks buying things under false pretenses why don't you address the sale of fake goods on ebay some of these sellers are promoted by you with 'Power Seller' status to which they said they/i can't prove they're fake so i sent them a Nike legit check...they failed to respond to this and never removed the counterfeit Nike listings. They do seem to have cleaned up their act in the last 10yrs im pleased to say.

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2 hours ago, mondo said:

^ same.. I have three close-fitting Iron Heart T-shirts I wear with an IH "shacket" – the T's are M, while the jacket is an XXL. No way I could fit anything as bulky as a sweatshirt under that thing. Think I bought it off eBay; you can bet I paid close attention to the measurements and skulked around the "extinct" pages of the IH forum...

Yeah it's weird, now I know what I like things to measure, I think I find it easier to get it right buying online, than I do trying something hurriedly in a shop.

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4 hours ago, Coolguyzack said:

A Japanese domestic brand's medium is very different from say... a Tommy Bahama medium.

I'm also skinny and tall, so I don't scale well with most size runs. Like at Jcrew I'm both a tall small and a slim medium lol

but what would you be an xs in? i'm only 175cm and i feel like most size S in ("fashion") american brands are already on the short side

 

2 hours ago, el padre said:

Yeah it's weird, now I know what I like things to measure, I think I find it easier to get it right buying online, than I do trying something hurriedly in a shop.

i'm 175cm and ~59kg and i'd feel comfortable buying most things in M/46, even from brands i'm unfamiliar with. some things would fit better than others but in general i think it would all "fit". i don't think i've tried something on in a store in a long time lol. i've never "needed" to size up to L+ unless you count shrinking things...

 

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3 hours ago, CASSAVA PIECE said:

but what would you be an xs in? i'm only 175cm and i feel like most size S in ("fashion") american brands are already on the short side

Things that are intentionally oversized or actual workwear, like Hawaiian shirts and things like Carrhart type jackets or filson shirts. Trust me, I definitely don't buy stuff if it's too short lol

Edit: Or I'll buy it online and hate it until I sell it!

Edited by Coolguyzack

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6 hours ago, CASSAVA PIECE said:

i'm 175cm and ~59kg and i'd feel comfortable buying most things in M/46

I'm 179 and 75 and short arms (i am aware I'm not selling it well here) and short torso and big arse and thighs and skinny calves and long legs.

I never find the height / weight thing much use to be honest cos so much depends on how the weight is distributed around the height. Feel lost without a good set of measurements to obsess over.

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1 hour ago, el padre said:

I'm 179 and 75 and short arms (i am aware I'm not selling it well here) and short torso and big arse and thighs and skinny calves and long legs.

I never find the height / weight thing much use to be honest cos so much depends on how the weight is distributed around the height. Feel lost without a good set of measurements to obsess over.

Tremendous good common sense here - height/weight ratio really isn’t much use.

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@el padre I’m a talent scout for a world renowned model agency and would like to sign you up immediately. DM me your details! :D

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1 hour ago, el padre said:

I'm 179 and 75 and short arms (i am aware I'm not selling it well here) and short torso and big arse and thighs and skinny calves and long legs.

I never find the height / weight thing much use to be honest cos so much depends on how the weight is distributed around the height. Feel lost without a good set of measurements to obsess over.

it's just a guideline. are measurements always accurate? ime no. and if you size down for shorters sleeves to accomate shorter arms, well naturally the shoulders and chest wil be narrower. etc

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56 minutes ago, Maynard Friedman said:

@el padre I’m a talent scout for a world renowned model agency and would like to sign you up immediately. DM me your details! :D

I’m sure grooming is frowned upon here ...

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2 hours ago, Dr_Heech said:

^..there was a whole thread dedicated to the subject back on Denimbro :unsure: 

Nothing but a distant memory 

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On 7/25/2020 at 2:25 AM, SuperJackle said:

So guys, I have a sort of... am I the asshole(?) kind of posts. 
 

Sold a shirt online, provided measurements in listing. Buyer requests refund, stating that, and I quote: “Didn’t fit how a medium should fit“. For whatever reason, ebay said I was under no obligation to refund his money, and I could close the refund. If you all are more or less familiar with how ebay usually works, even if you don’t accept returns, they will bully your ass around until you refund the buyer, plain and simple. Decided that I will close the return, citing that proper measurements were provided in listing. Buyer gets mad at this point and escalated to a paypal claim.  So I provided pictures and documentation of the listing and showed that I had provided measurements, and my defense was that the responsibility of checking measurements falls on the buyer.
 

Fast forward a week, in a surprising move, paypal ruled in my favor and closed the case. I’ve seen in many threads where ebay/paypal almost always sides with the buyer because of eBay’s “money back guarantee”, even if the seller doesn’t accept returns. Anyway, you guys think that was an asshole move to not accept the return? I provided measurements, but he said it “didn’t fit like a medium should, and that I should have indicated so” 

Definitely not an asshole move. If you provided accurate measurements and how you take them and the buyer can't properly use them it's on his fault.

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@SuperJackle - Not an asshole move, you were clearly in your right. This being said, I would have refunded, minus shipping costs. First, you took a risk with eBay & Paypal, second you'll probably get a negative rating, and third the pain of dealing with a refund is not that big a deal. My guess is you spent more time documenting stuff that you would have just accepting the return.

 

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On 7/27/2020 at 3:11 PM, JDelage said:

@SuperJackle - Not an asshole move, you were clearly in your right. This being said, I would have refunded, minus shipping costs. First, you took a risk with eBay & Paypal, second you'll probably get a negative rating, and third the pain of dealing with a refund is not that big a deal. My guess is you spent more time documenting stuff that you would have just accepting the return.

 

I've advised buyers that boots were too small, using measurements, they bought them anyway, and returned as too small. I'm too paranoid about neg feedback to do otherwise.

So usually I have standard wording saying no questions asked returns, but they pay postage both ways, and that normally provides sufficient disincentive for them to return. It's the loss pf postal costs rather than having to re-list that's a pain

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This is a really great Tuesday night alcohol free pale ale, especially when you’re celebrating finding your cat who’s been missing for 5 days. Done the old-fashioned way too - via home-made posters stuck to lamp posts in the street.

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11 hours ago, Maynard Friedman said:

This is a really great Tuesday night alcohol free pale ale, especially when you’re celebrating finding your cat who’s been missing for 5 days. Done the old-fashioned way too - via home-made posters stuck to lamp posts in the street.

Silas the dog has shifted the power-balance in the house so the cat's fucked off for a few days to show her disapproval, i would do the same but nobody would notice ;)

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Going on a 10-days-trip visiting family and friends. Deciding which jeans to take along...the struggle is real! :D

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1 hour ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

Going on a 10-days-trip visiting family and friends. Deciding which jeans to take along...the struggle is real! :D

No kidding. I just packed up our house to move and I sat there staring at all my denim, trying to imagine all the scenarios and what I want to wear for the next 3 months. 

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