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Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

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I will never understand this whole sea wash thing. 

This is even more ridiculous than the "don't wash your jeans" mentality in my view. Even if it does do anything, which I doubt, it's so silly and ridiculous that it's not worth it.

This post is a little strange because they seem to be trying to give a balanced take on it, giving pros and cons, but I still have doubts that there are pros at all.

They even say themselves that if you are going to sea wash, you should machine wash afterward... so why sea wash in the first place? I don't see how a bit of sand rubbing really helps your jeans look better at all.

Edited by dudewuttheheck

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seems like a "remember when..." sort of article, when we were supposed to avoid washing at all costs unless it came with the added attraction of "natural" abrasion to hasten dat contrast... heh. There were only so many ways in which it was permissible to facilitate or accelerate or the fadez... biking, squats, sea-wash – my best honeycombs were usually attributable to sitting on a low sandstone wall while waiting for the bus... things would change with different jobs etc, which I suppose is that whole just getting-on-with-life-while-wearing-jeans thing.

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Haha I used to love reading about all the weird stuff people would do just for the fadez. Like there was a guy on reddit I think who would go bouldering specifically in his jeans, and made sure to wipe the hand chalk off on the jeans so it would receive extra abrasion. Also, some would advise others to start skipping more stair steps in order to reach maximum honeycomb potential lol

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ha.. how many sizes down should I go..? sag y/n, stacks.. cockfade to left or right.. should I keep brass knuckles in my pocket..

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I grew up going in the ocean. The first thing I remember doing when getting is washing myself with the fresh water spigots available at public beaches if they had them, and a shower with soap when I got home. Ocean water is kind of gross. It is filled with bacteria and plankton, so it’s basically alive. When it dries and all those things die, it stinks. I remember leaving wet ocean clothes in the trunk once. Once is all it took for me to never do that again. When I learned that it was actually advised to do this by a brand, I just couldn’t believe it. I remember thinking to myself “WHYYYY?!?!?!” To each their own I guess. 

Edited by Muck Dynasty

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19 hours ago, Cold Summer said:

It says on their Twitter bio that they closed down on January 15th, they're definitely closed, unfortunately.

 
It's a sad day, i used to buy from VP before the whole RMC debacle, ive just been reading back through some old emails, their service was impeccable, i haven't shopped at VP since 2013 but i'm sorry to see them go.
 
 
Regarding 'ocean wash' i brought this subject up years ago regarding salt being bad for ones jeans on DB, one of the forum-ers recalled his father, who was serving in the navy... when the crew members got their new stiff uniforms they would thread a rope through the entire crews sleeves, legs and such and chuck the whole thing off the back of the ship, dragging it through the ocean to break it in/remove shrink so rather than just a 'passing modern trend' there's a bit more historical significance to it, needs must back then, nowadays it's all bollocks of course.

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I've always been suspicious of tricks and shortcuts with denim. IMO, the main reason for slow fades from people prone to complaining about that... is because they're not actually wearing their jeans very much.

It's really dumb when a guy who rotates 3-4 pairs complains that his Momotaros don't look as good after six months as somebody else who only wore his pair of jeans almost daily for six months. The best and most reliable way to get good fades is simply wearing the same pair almost every day, no gimmicks necessary. You don't have to wear one pair every day, but if you're primarily pursuing fades, you probably should.

I know some folks swear by certain activities (like cycling) that get more dramatic fades, but also have drawbacks (people like Soonami who cycle in their jeans get great results but also quickly blow apart the crotch. Meanwhile, I've never had a crotch blowout.) I'm convinced that unless you spend literally all of your time just sitting on the couch, you'll get good fades after wear your jeans for a year or so. I mean, I work in an office and don't live a particularly extreme lifestyle, but all of my jeans look good after they've been worn for a year or more. (I do have a baby on the way, so I guess I'll find out soon if that affects my fade progress :D )

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If you have a baby on the way, it’ll certainly put pressure on the waist and you may even have to stop wearing them completely!

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The practice of sea washing your jeans are still alive and well in Indonesia. So oldblue as one of the leading brands here felt responsible to set things straight. I think they made that post more for their local audiences.

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It sound so stupid but It is still happening until now, many indonesian folks (especially the “new generation” denim folks) still praise the practice of sea-washing as one of the “real” washing method. Do you know what the worst part about it? They still believe sea-washing is the ONLY way to achieve a sick fades. A must-to-do method to achieve a well-faded jeans

washing is a way to get rid of the dirt and gunk on your jeans, not adding more stink and bacteria into it. Smh.

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Also you can see what indonesian denimhead who always do that things on Ruedi's instagram stories.. So many denimhead who called "new generation" like @sattyz said do the seawash even they only break their denim for 3 months or more.

 

For the example;

1579537764876.thumb.jpg.7fd979234dd3a3e01262b052b84c2fcf.jpg

 

The indigo lost only on the honeycomb crease..

Edited by alpharikk

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I also can't imagine the embarrassment of walking your jeans around the beach and hoping that no one will see your washing ritual and ask you what you're doing... Well, you can probably get away with it at Venice beach lol

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When I first discovered the raw denim rabbit hole and was searching, I came across a vid on YT of some young Indonesian fellas sea-washing their brand new IH's. After they were rinsed with a fresh water hose in the back yard and dried, they did indeed have Sik Fadez. I get why it works - when wet, denim is most susceptible to indigo loss, and rubbing sand abrades the surface of the creases, accelerating what would happen with normal wear. I'm in no way of advocating this, and I think it's as stupid as sleeping in your jeans (but sometimes that just happens), using spray starch on the lap and behind the knee, and using some sort of waxy substance on the lap and/or behind the knees for grit to adhere to and therefore accelerate abrasion/fading. Yeah, I've heard of all of those things here on SuFu, and I haven't been around that long. 

I echo Kyle's @coldsummer sentiments above, and don't get why some fellas want fast-fading denim. Over a longer period of time, fast-fading denim will eventually loose more dye and look completely washed out. 

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And along this thought train, I've had this thought for quite a while - denim was originally developed as inexpensive work wear, made to be durable and protective, but would eventually wear out, be tossed away and replaced. That's the way modern work wear is made. Nobody in any labor trade today (OK, maybe 0.01% does, and buys the kind of clothes for work we discuss here) give any f%$ks about how their clothes look after being worn on the job. Therefore, denim wasn't dyed to the core of the yarns because it was less expensive to do so. The clothes looked good on the shelf when new, but after they were worn for work and were dirty, stained and torn, who cared how they looked. Fading was an unintentional by-product of making work-wear economical/affordable. 

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@kiya - I question this statement from the article - “Indigo is a large molecule that doesn’t really penetrate cotton fibers, so it’s sitting on top of the cotton fiber...”

It this really true? We've all seen an image of a clump of denim yarns that have been cut to show that the dye doesn't penetrate to the core of the yarns. Is this because of the size of the dye molecules? I have a really hard time believing that. I think it's more to do with the dying process - how long and how many times the yarns are dipped into a vat of dye, how the dye is brewed, how tight the cotton yarns are spun, the type of cotton and how's it's treated, among other factors. Afterall, AI denim is typically dyed thoroughly to the core and doesn't fade. 

As an example, how is IH's super black denim made to not fade? Is it the type of dye and/or how it's dyed? I assume the yarns are dyed to the core? 

 

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I think you’re looking at a very different scale.

Dye not penetrating to the cores of yarns is dependent on the dyeing process, as you’ve said, and yarns that aren’t dyed to their cores will fade as the outsides of the yarns wear away.

Regardless of what dyeing method is used, different dyes will act differently. Some (reactive dyes) will permanently cling to the fibers, changing their appearance. Others (fugitive dyes, like indigo) will work their way into the fibers without actually attaching themselves. How well they work their way in will depend, among other things, on the size of the dye molecules. Fugitive dyes will generally wash out over time—though slowly, if used correctly—whereas reactive dyes will be more permanent.

Anything happening on the fiber scale should be pretty independent of anything happening on the yarn scale, apart from informing what sorts of techniques should be used.

Ai denim is (generally) dyed to the core using fugitive indigo dye. Iron Heart’s SBG denim is likely dyed to the core using a reactive dye.

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As for anyone in the labor trade today not caring how their clothes look, I would respectfully disagree. And if you look at old photos, there has always been a pride in the mens appearance. 

 

 

 

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Anyone know where I can find a copy of The 501XX A Collection Of Vintage Jeans book?

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Good idea b_F, the first Amazon link I found was western and the book was going for 350 USD. :o

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That's still pretty expensive, at about $270! They need to reprint that book, those prices are nuts.

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Yeah that’s a bit excessive, think I’ll hold out.

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2 hours ago, Cold Summer said:

That's still pretty expensive, at about $270! They need to reprint that book, those prices are nuts.

My goodness...nearly three times the original price...  :huh:

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Maybe Wolf Pack or Clutch Cafe might have it.

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26 minutes ago, redragon said:

My goodness...nearly three times the original price...  :huh:

I'll wait a little bit longer before I sell my copy for 1000 $ ;)

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3 hours ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

I'll wait a little bit longer before I sell my copy for 1000 $ ;)

And when you sell yours for 1000$ I sell mine for 1500$ ;)

I bought my book for like 90eur from second sunrise but I don't think they have any left.

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On 1/19/2020 at 7:31 PM, Coolguyzack said:

Like there was a guy on reddit I think who would go bouldering specifically in his jeans, and made sure to wipe the hand chalk off on the jeans so it would receive extra abrasion.

If they're loose enough not to impede movement what is wrong with climbing in jeans? What else would he wipe his hands on between/during climbs? What do you think other climbers wipe their hands on? "Don't baby your jeans, let them reflect your life and the things you do in them" used to be the mantra around here and seeing that fade, so to speak, is...strange

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1 minute ago, julian-wolf said:

I climb in jeans, come at me

My arms are very tired. Can we schedule a dust-up for later this week? I think I have Thursday afternoon open.

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