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Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

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Posted (edited)

What is the sufu approved cuff method? Single or double?

Edit: figure I would throw in here there is a bit of sarcasm before I get flamed. 

4EDC30FA-955A-41B3-B991-B21D6B01BDE7.jpeg

Edited by Radiohead89

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I’ve actually been wearing my jeans without any cuffs lately, nice change of pace.

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I usually wear with a single cuff, about 1.5" high. I find this ideal because it gives the leg of the jeans structure, shows selvedge and roping, and isn't bulky. 

Double cuff is too bulky and hides the roping. No cuff can look good on slimmer leg pairs - I'm going to try wearing my FH 3009s uncuffed.

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No cuff, hems undone to allow jeans to fray at bottom and the inner and outer seams undone or cut from the bottom of the hem to a height of about 2” to allow the jeans to sit nicely over a range of footwear.

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Posted (edited)

those do have some interesting features and tweaks...

most certainly no selvage denim (Dyneema fibres), which would explain the Cone source - non-US Cone, probably China or Mexico. they mention that the jeans are made in/near SF, but don't include the fabric in that statement.
also, no hidden rivets for that special douple layered back pocket and a tapered cut.

Edited by Foxy2

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Posted (edited)

They say they source all fabric domestically and from White Oak. They allude to different fits and also rigid and stretch denim choices, but just have the one model atm I guess. Wouldn't expect hidden rivets at that price point, but would be nice.

Edited by Rob060

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1 hour ago, Foxy2 said:

those do have some interesting features and tweaks...

most certainly no selvage denim (Dyneema fibres), which would explain the Cone source - non-US Cone, probably China or Mexico. they mention that the jeans are made in/near SF, but don't include the fabric in that statement.
also, no hidden rivets for that special douple layered back pocket and a tapered cut.

Patagonia has also introduced Dyneema blend in their workwear denim.

https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-steel-forge-denim-work-pants-regular/56120.html?dwvar_56120_color=DDNM&cgid=mens-pants-jeans-workwear#start=1

 

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16 hours ago, Maynard Friedman said:

No cuff, hems undone to allow jeans to fray at bottom and the inner and outer seams undone or cut from the bottom of the hem to a height of about 2” to allow the jeans to sit nicely over a range of footwear.

The old Wild Ass denim used to be unhemmed. Thats a great look for everything from flipflops to Wesco Loggers.

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3 hours ago, Rob060 said:

They say they source all fabric domestically and from White Oak. They allude to different fits and also rigid and stretch denim choices, but just have the one model atm I guess. Wouldn't expect hidden rivets at that price point, but would be nice.

ideally, that should equate to "produced domestically" - unfortunately, that's not always the case. maybe the rules will allow for a certain percentage to be produced in Mexico with yarns coming from the US or the finishing taking place in the US and you can still call the fabric US made...
furthermore, most of the info seems to originate from 2015 - maybe parts need updating?

2 hours ago, Pedro said:

Dyneema is nothing bad per se - but most likely nothing that's been woven on a narrow draper loom with proper selvedge...

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Agree on Dyneema; however, I personally prefer the hemp blend by Patagonia for durability. It is a good fabric but the hemp has difficulty holding dye. 

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5 minutes ago, Foxy2 said:

ideally, that should equate to "produced domestically" - unfortunately, that's not always the case. maybe the rules will allow for a certain percentage to be produced in Mexico with yarns coming from the US or the finishing taking place in the US and you can still call the fabric US made...
furthermore, most of the info seems to originate from 2015 - maybe parts need updating?

Dyneema is nothing bad per se - but most likely nothing that's been woven on a narrow draper loom with proper selvedge...

It all sounds like the Cotton/Poly blend that Levi's did in the late 70's, especially on the 517.

Dyneema

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Maybe more like Kevlar but even stronger.

It makes a good material for motorcycle pants.

If you want to see how marketing works, then check out the Patagonia website where they describe it as made from trees, ie. eco-friendly. 

Heck, with a name like "Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene (UHMWPE-Dyneema®)", it almost sounds organic. :D

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Pedro said:

Heck, with a name like "Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene (UHMWPE-Dyneema®)", it almost sounds organic. :D

Sounds good enough to sprinkle on your cereal...

This is the thing I was talking about above...

s-l1600+%252811%2529.jpg

NEW-vintage-Levi-bell-bottoms.jpg

Edited by 501XX4EVER

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@501XX4EVER

Honestly, you guys never cease to amaze with your knowledge of Levis.

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Posted (edited)

After watching @dudewuttheheck's Viberg boots review on YouTube, and re-reading the last page of the Conner's thread, it's making me wonder: What, exactly, do we consider "quality" that justifies the prices of high-end casual clothing pieces?

For Jake, little things like loose threads on the vamp stitching are considered flaws that have no place on an expensive boot. For me, I see things like that and think, "this is where they cut off the last thread when they finished stitching." Some of these things honestly wouldn't occur to me to consider as flaws - I tend to see things like the finishing around the back heel (which I noticed when I had Vibergs in the past) as purposefully done like that - suggesting the hand-made nature of the boots rather than something perfectly, soullessly finished by a robot. Obviously, there are definitely things I consider to be defects - poorly-aligned stitchdown work, bad clicking, misaligned heels, etc.

This isn't to say that I don't have tremendous respect for guys like Goto from White Cloud or Brian the Bootmaker who do something approaching perfection, but for me things indicative of the hand-made process are features rather than bugs - similar to how many view the "flaws" of jeans like CSF (though in CSF's case, some of these aspects are done purposefully.)

My Flat Head 3005s, for example, have very narrow selvedge on the right outseam, about halfway down the thigh, which could be considered a defect (although there's no indication of this unless you turn the jeans inside out.) But I've been to Flat Head's denim houses in Okayama and seen them doing this stuff in person, the whole process is very inefficient and un-industrial so I just see this as a side effect of that. Most of my 3Sixteen shirts have had loose long threads/runoff at various points, so I just clip off the threads and move on.

I think you can go to plenty of fast-fashion stores and find clothing items that have technically-perfect stitching and construction (and maybe last longer because they're probably sewn with poly thread) because they were essentially made by robots/highly automated processes. So I don't mind the imperfect some degree of imperfection. Vintage Levi's weren't perfect either: hem roping, uneven fabrics, hidden rivets, cotton stitching, and fading in general were unintentional side effects to begin with. 

Edited by Cold Summer

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Posted (edited)

Fair points but I think we tend to look at the amount of money spent and compare that with the finished product. It's hard not to consider something a flaw if you've spent hundreds or even $1000+ on a piece of clothing.

Edited by ColonelAngus

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imma thinking the psychoanalytical equation

the degree to which one fails to fully integrate into structure = the subject 

[i.e. the degree to which perfection is sought but not achieved defines our experience of humanity...]

our objects fit the same equation; some sit near the sun, but what does it mean to live there?

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To me value is a personal measurement. Cost plays a factor, but also how much longevity and use I can get out of it is important too. I don’t mind minor issues as long as they don’t impact the usefulness of something. They remind me that these things we enjoy are made by humans (often using old equipment and practices) and there will be inherent flaws because of that. 

Maybe I’m a turning into an old curmudgeon at the ripe age of 27, but does anyone else find YouTube videos like this super lame? Using decisive titles that lead to more clicks (Is Chromexcel leather overrated? My short answer is no, they’ve been around for a long time so they must be doing something right...) just leads me back to my complaint about social media and influencer culture. Maybe I just long for the days where you used to buy cool shit because you thought it was cool. And shared it with other people who also enjoy that hobby just to connect with people.

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I don't watch very many fashion related YouTube vids but I like the ones by Carl Murawski. His videos are cool because he seems to research the brands he talks about and doesn't hold back if he has criticisms. I think it's important to have a balanced approach to reviews, otherwise, you'll just be that guy that praises everything.

Social media has its purpose. When I was on IG it exposed me to a lot of brands and users who shared similar interests. But, I got fatigued on it pretty quickly once I saw it slowly becoming a way to monetise yourself and shill for brands. I also got tired of certain denim memes that would pop up everywhere, or seeing certain users posting the same stupid pictures of their closet because they're not creative enough to come up with new content.

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Yeah, I think the whole "influencer" culture is ridiculous. I probably wouldn't even use Instagram but it seems like the liveliest community of denim nerds right now, so I kind of can't avoid it, plus I like looking at pictures (which at least in recent years is less common on here.)

The biggest problem is the pressure to constantly be creating content and putting stuff up daily. I post every once in a while because I don't have a huge wardrobe or fancy photo equipment, plus I'm a bit lazy. I enjoy looking at it, but I don't really envy the effort that goes into creating all of it, particularly since I don't really care about likes or social media popularity to begin with.

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I've never watched any of those YouTube vids, like a lot of the IG posts with people looking like they adjusting their cuffs to show their socks and moc toes it's just click bait. 

Taking a format that originally got a lot of likes then replicating it over and over for more likes.....

There's a  lot of people now who seem to be trying to hard, coming across a little 'manufactured ' and seeking a perfect product that probably doesn't exist..

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Cold Summer said:

For Jake, little things like loose threads on the vamp stitching are considered flaws that have no place on an expensive boot. For me, I see things like that and think, "this is where they cut off the last thread when they finished stitching." Some of these things honestly wouldn't occur to me to consider as flaws - I tend to see things like the finishing around the back heel (which I noticed when I had Vibergs in the past) as purposefully done like that - suggesting the hand-made nature of the boots rather than something perfectly, soullessly finished by a robot. Obviously, there are definitely things I consider to be defects - poorly-aligned stitchdown work, bad clicking,  heels, etc.

As someone who grew up in an extended family of Craftsman (now Aritsan) of various trades in what then was considered the Old World Tradition and which has been enthusiastically reintroduced with a new young generation of guys who often didn't even start out in an Apprenticeship, I can say that there are certain practices in every craft that would entirely escape the untrained eye but which a peer would look at with disdain. It doesn't matter if this is the job of a farrier, a bootmaker, hatmaker, furnituremaker, tilesetter, machinist, etc..

Each profession has a reason for the macro and micro details of their craft which are to varying degrees aesthetic and practical. These skillsets used to be passed down after a lengthy apprenticeship but with the new generation of bespoke artisan, many of whom never apprenticed, such details may be lost.

Ofcourse, not everyone will even develop the eye or the hand of the expert even after decades in the profession. It is much to do with the individual personality.

EDIT:

Reading further, what I am referencing has absolutely nothing to do with "influencers"...a concept I was not even familiar with until this college bribery scandal. I can't think of many worse names to be called than an "Influencer". 

 

Edited by Pedro

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, ColonelAngus said:

Fair points but I think we tend to look at the amount of money spent and compare that with the finished product. It's hard not to consider something a flaw if you've spent hundreds or even $1000+ on a piece of clothing.

Exactly.

And the person that built, fabricated, constructed, sewed, that product is getting paid an amount above his skillset. 

Perhaps a strong word but a fraud. Ofcourse, some of these craftsman simply do not have the understanding or the trained eye to understand how much they lack because they are self-taught. They think that because they use a particular denim or leather or snap that their product automatically becomes exceptional. 

Edited by Pedro

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2 hours ago, Geeman said:

I've never watched any of those YouTube vids, like a lot of the IG posts with people looking like they adjusting their cuffs to show their socks and moc toes it's just click bait. 

Taking a format that originally got a lot of likes then replicating it over and over for more likes.....

There's a  lot of people now who seem to be trying to hard, coming across a little 'manufactured ' and seeking a perfect product that probably doesn't exist..

 

You took the words right out of my mouth.  The cuff adjusting mimicry is out of control. 

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How's the sizing on MIJ Converse All Stars?  Is the sizing like the regular ones?  

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I find they run bigger, so I would size down half to a whole size.

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I'd say half size down mate. 

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hi there has anyone bought anythings from the brand Workers? 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/23/2019 at 2:46 AM, Rob060 said:

They say they source all fabric domestically and from White Oak. They allude to different fits and also rigid and stretch denim choices, but just have the one model atm I guess. Wouldn't expect hidden rivets at that price point, but would be nice.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/791166183/backcountry-denim-cotm-most-durable-jeans-ever-mad/comments

Looks like this is another failed kickstarter brand. I got suspicious when I noticed that they hadn't posted on their instagram since 2017.

**actually, reading further down, it looks like they got sued by backcountry.com for trademark.

Edited by justintk
add

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