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Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.


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12 hours ago, julian-wolf said:

Do you have any particular recommendations? This seems right up my alley as a day trip

Also, for anyone who's spent time around Southern or Central Germany: Recommendations for hostels or other easy places to stay?

Landed this morning, and having a great time so far

Tbh the best ones are usually the ones directly bought from the cheesemakers. If you are in the area, ask locals, maybe search for a farm shop, where a farm directly sells their produce, might score a good bread and cured meats in the process as well. 

Re Hostels: Usually there are a few smaller hotels, if a village or city is a bit touristical. Else the usual chains (ibis, BnB, ....) are solid options, airbnb is worth checking out as well ;)

Have fun mate ;)

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I’m sure some of you have seen this story by now, but a pair of miners pants (some are saying jeans, but the weave looks like 1x1 duck to me) BELIEVED to be made by Levi Strauss himself were recovered from an 1857 shipwreck and sold at auction last week for 95k, I think I saw 120k including buyers premium. They were in a wood chest and in contact with other things, hence the coloration.
The evidence of Mr. Strauss being involved in their manufacture seems flimsy at best-“While the original color of the pants is unknown, the 5-button fly "strongly suggests these were an early manufacture of work pants sold by Levi Strauss," the auction site Holabird wrote. 

"The five-button fly is nearly identical, if not technically identical, to Levis of today," the site said.

I’m no expert, but the fly does not appear identical to the Levi’s of today, other than that it has five buttons.

https://www.businessinsider.com/levi-strauss-jeans-recovered-in-shipwreck-sold-at-auction-2022-12?amp
 

https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/california-gold-rush-shipwreck-auction-17621278.php

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16 hours ago, bartlebyyphonics said:

was recently recommended deepl.com recently for a French to English translation by a lawyer/notary; definitely had more nuance than google for those languages; not sure of Eng>Japanese in that program, but just in case in helps yr pants purchases...

The Deepl.com Japanese>English seems to be very good. 
Thanks for the recommendation

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24 minutes ago, mlwdp said:

The only thing that ticks me off is Japanese sites that have PayPal as one of their payment options but doesn’t offer overseas shopping.

I seem to have bought several times from Japanese sites that do not offer shipping overseas officially. In a very simple way - I wrote them an email and if they confirmed they could ship, they also sent an invoice for payment via PayPal.

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Your take on arcuates, did it change over the years?

I guess a certain group here will only "accept" the original Levi's arcs because they are classic and timeless.
When I started with these Japanese brands I kinda preferred the repro arcs of the brands, like TFH, Samurai, SdA...all the ones which were clearly takes on Levi's.
I felt like I was in the know, wearing high quality Japanese jeans that the average joe would take for Levi's but they are not and only I know (this indeed happened with some Samurai jeans).
Over the years I wore more brands without arcs but I would still prefer a red tab to make the back look more complete. In fact all jeans I own are arc-less.

Only now, with the FC I acquired, I have a pair with Levi-esque arcs again and now it feels strange to wear something that "pretends" to be Levi's but is not. But to remove the bottom to make them "complete Levi's" feels even stranger :D 

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As an old guy, who grew up with shrink-to-fit Levi's from the '60s, I just saw them as pants to wear to school.  Interesting pants, since they came flat and stiff and soaking them was almost a science experiment in the backyard.  Once they were shrunk, and if I got lucky enough to pick the right size, I'd wear them and am reminded of Roy Slaper's comment that jeans are an ill-fitting garment.  They hung sort of low on the hips and went straight down.  In truth, I was happy when the GAP came along and made jeans that fit a little better.

While I feel a nostalgia for youth, I don't look back on those 60s Levi's as anything special or particularly well made, though they were thick and tough, which was cool.  I didn't know who Marlon Brando was, had no familiarity with post WWII Japan, and Steve McQueen was just entering the scene, so Levi's was nothing more (to me) than a company that made denim pants.

When I started looking for something better than GAP jeans from Sears, I discovered the same brands that b_F mentions, including Samurai, TFH, FC, and Iron Heart.  These were heavy duty, much more expensive, and included interesting arc designs that I liked then and still appreciate.  Removing threads to make these jeans look like Levi's never crossed my mind.

Only since joining this group did my appreciation for Levi's' history begin to grow.  It's an old company by American standards, with ties to history and culture.  I think what I appreciate more than Levi's (honestly) is the dedication and enthusiasm that the Osaka 5 (and others) brought to denim, as well as the knowledge and appreciation for history and detail that are shared here.

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To my mind the Levi's of today might as well have a different name from the Levi's of the mid-century and prior, and the things that make the jeans from some Japanese brands today closer to those old Levi's have a lot to do with more than the arcs. I've got no interest in 2022 Levi's nor in pretending anything I own is from them. I do like some of their old designs, but to be honest I sort of wish some of the repro brands included a few more twists of their own - I'd be happy to see the red tab fade away or more colors be used more often, for instance. The few repro pieces I own are because I like the cut, the denim and cotton thread above anything else. Aesthetically, I still like Levi's arcs but really I can do without any arcs and if they're there I'd rather them be something a little different.

My take has been more or less the same since I got interested in denim, which is only 7-8 years ago. In fact it was my frustration with Levi's and the almost ubiquitous offerings of stretch denim that first sent me down the path. Maybe the only difference is I have a greater appreciation for the actual vintage Levi's pieces - but will never own one anyways. 

Edited by AlientoyWorkmachine
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5 hours ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

Your take on arcuates, did it change over the years?

I guess a certain group here will only "accept" the original Levi's arcs because they are classic and timeless.

...

Hey B_f, I guess l belong to this 'certain group' to some extent, but it's not a case of acceptance but more simply just an aesthetic. I just prefer the Levis arcs over any other (although l do love Wrangler W's).

Like John, l grew up wearing denim and got my first Levis in my mid teens, with my first 501's a few years later.

A few years after that and l had a dozen or so pairs of thrifted vintage 40's-70's Levis 501's and a couple of jackets that l wore and enjoyed. Those items are all now long gone, but thanks to the various international brands that have existed in the last 20 years, l now have a dozen or so pairs of vintage 20's-60's repro Levis 501's and a few jackets - some don't have arcs but most do and are all Levis-esque.

So l've only really replaced like for like and nothing more, but l've always preferred the original Levis style arcuate but guess l'm in the minority now.

 

Edited by Dr_Heech
To clarify
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I also got my first pair of 501s in the late 80s. It felt great wearing them.
Some people made a difference between made in USA and made in Italy 501s, claiming the cut of the Italian ones was better.
Later came Liberto, Diesel, some wore Closed, some Edwin.
And then white 501s.
You couldn't go wrong with Levi's, they appealed to everybody, they looked good on most people and the commercials were cool, too.

I also liked the arcs and the red tab. When I got more interested in raw denim, I was open to different or no arcs.
Initially I was also curious about diffferent fabrics, heavy, with linen, silk, etc..
But more and more I liked the vintage style jeans and just in recent years learning more about the details and preferring repro style jeans.
With that I also realized, that I quite like the aesthetics of the Levis arcs and the red tab.
While it's only a part and they disintegrate over time, it's still an important part.

The phenomenon, that the jeans are thought to be normal 501s by most is also a fun part.

Edited by indigoeagle
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8 hours ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

Your take on arcuates, did it change over the years?

I guess a certain group here will only "accept" the original Levi's arcs because they are classic and timeless.
When I started with these Japanese brands I kinda preferred the repro arcs of the brands, like TFH, Samurai, SdA...all the ones which were clearly takes on Levi's.
I felt like I was in the know, wearing high quality Japanese jeans that the average joe would take for Levi's but they are not and only I know (this indeed happened with some Samurai jeans).
Over the years I wore more brands without arcs but I would still prefer a red tab to make the back look more complete. In fact all jeans I own are arc-less.

Only now, with the FC I acquired, I have a pair with Levi-esque arcs again and now it feels strange to wear something that "pretends" to be Levi's but is not. But to remove the bottom to make them "complete Levi's" feels even stranger :D 

I always liked the arcuates on Japanese brands and disliked plain back pockets. My most worn pairs of the last year or two (WH 1001xx and 800xx) have plain pockets, so I've come around on less-branded pairs. But I still like the arcs on my Samurai jeans (S710, S3000, S0510) and Flat Head (domestic and F-stitch types.) If I got a pair of jeans "designed" to have part of the arcs removed to look like Levi's (eg., Warehouse's Duck Digger jeans) I would leave them unmodified.

Edited by Cold Summer
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My first authentic jeans were Lee's and Levi's in the '70s, with their famous details, including arcs. Later I lost interest in Levi's items due to their transformation into a low quality products and departure from established tradition. 

Almost all modern low-quality jeans come with all sorts of arcs, or peculiar back pockets. With the the revival of the interest to jeans I didn't want my exclusive Japanese raw denim to look like some no-name rubbish, so I preferred models with no arcs at all. Eventually, I had to buy with arcs too, only because some brands didn't offer denim without arcs, like IH or TFH. Over time, I got used to the arcs, but to this day, I still feel more comfortable with the option without arcs. Especially since some of the brands I find most preferable today usually go without arcs at all, like OA or FW.

Edited by Talan
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my fave arcs in descending order:

1. dry bones guitar wolf

2. old sda (simplest but least obvious disguise of hidden levi's arc)

3. fc 1108 (sits a tad higher than on 0105)

4. old samurai 3000vx (war model, painted, where the two arcs meet in the middle not so far apart as in current version)

5. sc hawaii (love the thicc threads)

6. og mf cali (white thread, batman-ish, half-covered by aged leather patch)

7. fh's old half-arc 

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Even as someone who wore 501 in my teens, 35 years or so ago, my interest i denim has never really been based on trying to relive those days. 

I only really like SDA and FC accurates and prefer a plain pocket.

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19 hours ago, JohnM said:

As an old guy, who grew up with shrink-to-fit Levi's from the '60s, I just saw them as pants to wear to school.  Interesting pants, since they came flat and stiff and soaking them was almost a science experiment in the backyard.  Once they were shrunk, and if I got lucky enough to pick the right size, I'd wear them and am reminded of Roy Slaper's comment that jeans are an ill-fitting garment.  They hung sort of low on the hips and went straight down.  In truth, I was happy when the GAP came along and made jeans that fit a little better.

While I feel a nostalgia for youth, I don't look back on those 60s Levi's as anything special or particularly well made, though they were thick and tough, which was cool.  I didn't know who Marlon Brando was, had no familiarity with post WWII Japan, and Steve McQueen was just entering the scene, so Levi's was nothing more (to me) than a company that made denim pants.

When I started looking for something better than GAP jeans from Sears, I discovered the same brands that b_F mentions, including Samurai, TFH, FC, and Iron Heart.  These were heavy duty, much more expensive, and included interesting arc designs that I liked then and still appreciate.  Removing threads to make these jeans look like Levi's never crossed my mind.

Only since joining this group did my appreciation for Levi's' history begin to grow.  It's an old company by American standards, with ties to history and culture.  I think what I appreciate more than Levi's (honestly) is the dedication and enthusiasm that the Osaka 5 (and others) brought to denim, as well as the knowledge and appreciation for history and detail that are shared here.

Its a bit like the british blues boom of the 60s that the British blues bands made you appreciate what you had on your door stop, so did the Japanese with there love of American denim.

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I used to prefer the JP variations on arcs in my earlier days, they were unique while still paying homage to Levi's in some way.
I felt like I was in the know somehow, wearing niche brands that people didn't know about.
But now I prefer repro arcs or plain back pockets, as most of the other options out there are too flashy for my tastes these days.
I like that repro arcs blend in, no one really needs to know that I'm wearing fancy pants except for me.

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17 hours ago, Dr_Heech said:

Hey B_f, I guess l belong to this 'certain group' to some extent

You certainly do and I had you in mind :D It wasn't meant as a judgement or so.

 

I'll play with you @oomslokop:

1. old Samurai arcs
2. The Steam Locomotive
3. Full Count

4. Evisu gulls
5. TFH

 

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26 minutes ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

You certainly do and I had you in mind :D It wasn't meant as a judgement or so.

 

I'll play with you @oomslokop:

1. old Samurai arcs
2. The Steam Locomotive
3. Full Count

4. Evisu gulls
5. TFH

 

My very first jeans from Japan were the Samurai S710XX, and the literal reason for choosing these particular jeans was the hard to see, almost invisible black tread arcs. I still have them, great for cold winters.

IMG_6766.thumb.jpg.3a265ea0f19032edc21c178d971d2103.jpg

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On 12/15/2022 at 12:38 PM, beautiful_FrEaK said:

You certainly do and I had you in mind :D It wasn't meant as a judgement or so.

Yes you are judging me :laugh: my friend, but it's cool, l put it out there so l'm there to be judged. I'm not trying to relive old days or make a statement. l've always been like this (well since l was about 19) and l'm not about to change anytime soon; Not sure if it's me being narrow minded or bloody-minded. But its old Levis arcs all the way for me. Like you said earlier - a timeless classic.

To be clear, I only really like arcs on older pre-1980 Levis but also early Lee and Wrangler and even those companys' take on Levis arcs back then. Modern Levis don't interest me, regardless of the arcs. The only companies now producing repro jeans that l would purchase from are Warehouse or maybe Freewheelers. Most other popular denim brands discussed here l know nothing about because (amongst other things) l dislike their pocket designs. They may as well be Gap or diesel jeans as far as l'm concerned - they garner no attention from me at all. But without all these other brands we wouldn't have a community to start with, so long live denim diversity. Yaay.

 :biggrin:

Edited by Dr_Heech
To make it clearer
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I like the arcuates and white tab on my old Japanese-made Edwin Waynesvilles I first bought over 20 years ago. I also like the ‘wings’ and pocket pip on my Ande Whalls. I still like Levi’s-esque arcs too, particularly those similar but not quite the same as Levi’s. I like the Wrangler Ws too and the back pocket designs on my SC Okis, Hawaiis and slack denim pair.

Plain back pockets are fine but better if they have a tab, preferably red, such as Denime.

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On 12/14/2022 at 2:40 PM, beautiful_FrEaK said:

Your take on arcuates, did it change over the years?

I had to think about this.

I recalled a friend of a friend was selling some Evisu with white stitched arcs.  Must have been late 1990s.  I snapped them up.  No one had them (apart from the other buyers). They felt cool.  The arcs were a part of that cool but not all of it.

Over the years, I lost interest as Evisu was everywhere and I felt they were no longer cool, including them arcs.

I still have those Evisu - albeit a little snugger - and actually now quite like the arcs again as retro cool.

Overall though, arcs - or no arcs - have not been that a major consideration for me.  Other things (fit, fabric, deets etc) matter more.

After all, you can't see them arcs - or no arcs - when you're wearing them!

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