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Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.


cmboland

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I also think that the main Expansion years are over and we now see the market shrinking again. On the one hand there's a way more easy access for us westerners to nearly all brands (OOE retail through S&S, RMC has own Shops, of course denimio, and all the brick and mortar stores). On the other hand it took away the need to discuss or share experience on sizing, sources and fading outcomes. So it's maybe not really Mainstream in Terms that people actually know about it but I've never seen so many selvage Jeans in sotres or on People as I do know. But - it's not neccesarily a sign of likeminded folk anymore.

 

Same goes for Tattoos - nowadays almost every persom in our age has one, but if you look behind the fact of just "having one" rather than "which one" you still can tell wether you have things in common or not.

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The way I see forums is like an online community. It takes more time and effort to log onto a forum, read posts, make posts, upload pics, edit pics on phone or computer beforehand, etc. You end up with people who are as enthusiastic (if not more) about the topic(s) of the forum.

Social media platforms these days are all about quick information, they don't really build a community like a forum can do. I think forums as a whole are lot less popular these days.

As such, I have no problem with people posting about other interests/things in their lives, it just adds to the community. Obviously threads should be kept on topic, but in threads like this, it's totally fine in my book.

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I certainly agree that the exploratory days are over - a simple google search, a quick DM to your favourite denim shop or a post to reddit will answer any questions that a new hobbyists might have about raw denim. There's not the same excitement as there was in the old days, when so much was unknown... we might check on the forum to read what ringring has to say about rope dyeing or yarn spinning, or ask about how to proxy purchase off a Rakuten store. 

 

It's all about connectivity now, and in that respect I love Instagram. For example, this afternoon I found a Korean work boot maker who makes wonderful oxfords through my discovery feed, and was immediately able to talk to him via DM. I've recently managed to meet some denimheads in my own city through IG as well; I have met 0 through SuFu after so many years.

 

What Superdenim is good for would be indexing and storage of photos, in-depth experiences and other knowledge. If the quality of our content goes down, then there will no longer be a purpose to this forum. 

 

By the by, I wouldn't say markets are shrinking though... From what I have seen Americana, workwear and denim are still growing in most of Asia, including Australia. It honestly hasn't really even started where I live just yet. 

 

 

Edited by mikecch
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I don't mind food, drinks etc in relevant threads but I would prefer that the pics (most of them anyway) would be within spoiler-tags; those interested could take a look. The same goes to denim pics as well, especially when quoting a post.

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24 minutes ago, mikecch said:

It's all about connectivity now, and in that respect I love Instagram. For example, this afternoon I found a Korean work boot maker who makes wonderful oxfords through my discovery feed, and was immediately able to talk to him via DM. I've recently managed to meet some denimheads in my own city through IG as well; I have met 0 through SuFu after so many years.

 

would you care to share the IG? just curious!

I've joined here in 2012 or 2013, but started to wear raw denim in 2009. My gateway drugs were two pairs of Edwins, which I worn religiously adhering to the strict "no wash regimen" which was en vogue back those days. Even after washing (after 12-14 months) those pairs still look sooo filthy and dirty. I wouldn't never ever wear them again haha!

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I got into denim in 2004 or 2005 and was bored by 2010 after living in Tokyo, where it became so normal, and after seeing the whole lumberjack trend blowing up in EU and NA. Just now starting to get a little more excited again, and also think that forums and blogs will be coming back after social networks have pretty much taken over. I do still love Instagram, though.

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I was wary of Instagram at first but I think it's actually been very good for the raw denim community. Much better than Reddit (which has a format that doesn't really lend itself well to an in-depth hobby like this.) It makes it easy to share pics and stuff; I rarely post pictures on here anymore, compared to Instagram. Some of it is weird or goofy (Snake Oil Provisions, etc.) but there's no doubt it's pumped a lot of vitality into the scene.

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I just follow a bunch of Japanese bikers on Instagram mostly.

Speaking of which, besides Donna and Wolfpack,  are there anymore Japanese motorcycle clothing eccentric Rakuten sites that ship to USA?  Just found out that Cannonball doesn't ship internationally.  

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I have to agree that Instagram has probably been a good thing for our denim world at this point. It allows connection to a lot of people, brands, and Craftsmen that would otherwise be difficult to discover or talk to. Conner's Sewing Factory for example pretty much only responds to ig dms and not to actual emails. I did my wh ranch order through Instagram and have found a lot of information and people worth following and talking to there.

 

Forums still have there place if you find the right one for you. IH, this and especially denimbro have been quite informative and helped me meet some actual cool forum people in real life as a result which is wonderful.

 

I think the market has roughly hit its peak here in the US, but as with other vintage revival trends such as pomade (another community that I am active in), it doesn't appear to be shrinking in terms of numbers of people interested in it. The mythos is what has shrunken. Even a couple of years ago (and I am sure that those of you who got into the scene before the 2010s experienced this even more, discovering raw denim was a bit of a mystery and the more you learned, the more you realized was out there. There was the difference between raw and sanforized, vintage repros and modern style denim, the heavyweight nuts, etc. Then there was the difference in styles between people who were more streetwear-oriented, people who post here, the more vintage-vibe stuff on denimbro, etc.

 

Now, with Reddit and Instagram, all of that information is right there and much of the mystery of discovery is gone. This is good in some ways, but it may take some of the fun out of it. I can say the same thing for pomade.

 

The end result is that there will always be the die hard fans that will stick around long after the trend is over and because of the internet, there will be enough of those people that the trend will never completely die and those who truly enjoy it will always be able to. There will also be more casual people who get into it for a short period, but the internet allows more people to discover these worlds and as a result, there will inevitably be more people who really get into it and stick around for the long run.

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3 hours ago, dudewuttheheck said:

I have to agree that Instagram has probably been a good thing for our denim world at this point. It allows connection to a lot of people, brands, and Craftsmen that would otherwise be difficult to discover or talk to. Conner's Sewing Factory for example pretty much only responds to ig dms and not to actual emails. I did my wh ranch order through Instagram and have found a lot of information and people worth following and talking to there.

 

Forums still have there place if you find the right one for you. IH, this and especially denimbro have been quite informative and helped me meet some actual cool forum people in real life as a result which is wonderful.

 

I think the market has roughly hit its peak here in the US, but as with other vintage revival trends such as pomade (another community that I am active in), it doesn't appear to be shrinking in terms of numbers of people interested in it. The mythos is what has shrunken. Even a couple of years ago (and I am sure that those of you who got into the scene before the 2010s experienced this even more, discovering raw denim was a bit of a mystery and the more you learned, the more you realized was out there. There was the difference between raw and sanforized, vintage repros and modern style denim, the heavyweight nuts, etc. Then there was the difference in styles between people who were more streetwear-oriented, people who post here, the more vintage-vibe stuff on denimbro, etc.

 

Now, with Reddit and Instagram, all of that information is right there and much of the mystery of discovery is gone. This is good in some ways, but it may take some of the fun out of it. I can say the same thing for pomade.

 

The end result is that there will always be the die hard fans that will stick around long after the trend is over and because of the internet, there will be enough of those people that the trend will never completely die and those who truly enjoy it will always be able to. There will also be more casual people who get into it for a short period, but the internet allows more people to discover these worlds and as a result, there will inevitably be more people who really get into it and stick around for the long run.

Instagram is good but I think too that with the dissemination of information being so widespread it tends to saturate the market. I loved IG when I was on it and found it very addicting, but over time I got fatigued just looking at the daily feeds of dudes wearing RW boots, denim and flannel (things which I still like by the way). Don't get me wrong, it's a great platform to get noticed but the marketing side of it became tiresome. It was pretty obvious too when you'd get pics of a few certain IG users with over 10,000 followers and all of a sudden they're all pimping Shockoe denim.

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5 minutes ago, ColonelAngus said:

It was pretty obvious too when you'd get pics of a few certain IG users with over 10,000 followers and all of a sudden they're all pimping Shockoe denim.

Thankfully it's easy to unfollow those posters. :P

Instagram and the forums both have their place, I enjoy them both, warts and all. I even still trawl through blogs, though it's obvious most of them are struggling.

What was the original question? Market saturation? I guess it's hard to say if we've reached "peak denim." Like Mike says, Australia is still on the upswing. Meanwhile, places like Thailand and Indonesia are blowing up. Pronto can't open up enough stores to meet demand in BKK, or so I've been told. Japan remains a relatively stable market, but denim/clothing factories are closing down here and there and might not come back. Korea seems to be churning out high quality repro clothes now too; part of me wonders if that will become the next manufacturing base, instead of the ethical Made in China route, which is still pretty fraught with danger.

Here in Taiwan, in-store sales are on the down slide, but that's due to people figuring out how to use Yahoo Auctions and Rakuten, plus stagnant wages coupled with a rising cost of living. The US economy looks optimistic right know (not sure, haven't been back in almost 5 years). Who knows what the future holds. :) 

Edited by Iron Horse
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1 hour ago, Iron Horse said:

Thankfully it's easy to unfollow those posters. :P

 

True, but some of the IG posters I followed actually had decent feeds. I think I got turned off by it because it started to turn into a scheme for companies to make sales. I get it, that's what companies use IG for, but I followed people because I liked seeing pics of faded jeans and guys repping brands that they've been wearing for a few years. Once you start doing product placement for brands the very idea of IG loses me.

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^I know what you mean, I've also seen a couple of guys that each week sport a bunch of different things and after a week or two those are gone replaced by the next 'awesome product'. What's sad that there are obviously many that take their advertising as gospel.

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36 minutes ago, ColonelAngus said:

True, but some of the IG posters I followed actually had decent feeds. I think I got turned off by it because it started to turn into a scheme for companies to make sales. I get it, that's what companies use IG for, but I followed people because I liked seeing pics of faded jeans and guys repping brands that they've been wearing for a few years. Once you start doing product placement for brands the very idea of IG loses me.

Well, I would be cautious to not throw the baby out with the bath water. I just don't follow any "IG stars" and mostly stick to vintage collectors, shops, and middle-aged Japanese guys living in the countryside. 

Besides, I have to look at that godawful Givenchy ad with the lead vampire from Twilight in it every day here but I'm still posting on Sufu. :P

Edited by Iron Horse
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26 minutes ago, Iron Horse said:

Well, I would be cautious to not throw the baby out with the bath water. I just don't follow any "IG stars" and mostly stick to vintage collectors, shops, and middle-aged Japanese guys living in the countryside. 

Besides, I have to look at that godawful Givenchy ad with the lead vampire from Twilight in it every day here but I'm still posting on Sufu. :P

What's some good ig names to follow?

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I'm curious if Thailand has passed peak Raw Denim. Sometimes I'll check on SelvedgeForum, and it seems way less active than a few years ago. I sense that raw denim is kind of a trend that had a very hot moment, but has cooled down a bit since then. I could be wrong though.

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Quite literally a hot moment, I would not be surprised if the trend did cool down because that climate is insane for raw denim.  Still seeing quite a lot of activity from other southeast asian countries (namely Indonesia) so you never know.

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29 minutes ago, Cold Summer said:

 I sense that raw denim is kind of a trend that had a very hot moment, but has cooled down a bit since then. I could be wrong though.

I think it has tapered off a little. The interest is still there but when you look at the economics behind everything, costs are slowly rising and I think raw denim will eventually become inaccessible, or at the very least, customers will start gravitating towards the cheaper brands again. I haven't bought new jeans in over a year and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Denim enthusiasts fall into a niche category and I think we tend to be a little obsessive/compulsive about our clothing. I look back on all the clothing i've purchased in the past 2-3 yrs and there's a lot I'd return, simply because I wasn't as educated about brands back then. Nowadays I can't justify any $300+ clothing purchases that amount to a car payment. This is one of the reasons I got off of Instagram -- it did nothing but enable my clothing purchases and the last thing I want is to have buyer's remorse, or worse, put myself into debt just so that I can feel good about myself.

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I think the Thai denim scene is far from over, you only need to look at last week's Pronto Carnival, which was Prontos 10 anniversary by the way. Pronto has the lions share of the market ( and also the status of being the premier store for the can affords and real denim geeks) has a massive selection of brands across mutiple stores in BKK alone. They are real clever with it and spread brands and models across the different stores to prevent them all being the same. They also have considerable pull with the brand's and will often stock new releases and restocks first. They are usually very quick with PBJ and hold a lot of stock. As for prices rising there, I don't see much effect on the consumers, you've never seen so many flathead leather accessories being worn and we all know they ain't cheap! 

There's a lot of new comers also, West code store ( find him on IG) stocking pherrows Jelado Sugarcane Orgueil and so on, Oscar Denim stocking Toys Mcoys, Samurai and Selective for Alden and other top end shoes. Then you get to lcoal brands like Nama (greatshirts!) And Crows the list goes on...

Raw in Thailand has got a lot of life left in it yet. 

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How not to sell stuff on Grailed, courtesy of some "nicholas_1": 

"No I will not take more photos. No I will not accept your generous offer of $100. Not interested in playing 20 questions with you. Serious inquiries only. If you make an offer, expect it to come back as a counter offer with shipping charges tacked on."

But of course this dick couldn't be bothered to even post the tag number size of a Flat Head shirt I might've been interested in buying if he'd provided any useful information or more than one picture.

Granted I haven't (as far as I know) personally communicated with this jerk but have you guys ever had much experience/amusing stories about unpleasant sellers?

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Cold Summer said:

How not to sell stuff on Grailed, courtesy of some "nicholas_1": 

"No I will not take more photos. No I will not accept your generous offer of $100. Not interested in playing 20 questions with you. Serious inquiries only. If you make an offer, expect it to come back as a counter offer with shipping charges tacked on."

But of course this dick couldn't be bothered to even post the tag number size of a Flat Head shirt I might've been interested in buying if he'd provided any useful information or more than one picture.

Granted I haven't (as far as I know) personally communicated with this jerk but have you guys ever had much experience/amusing stories about unpleasant sellers?

 

 

 I'm guessing he's had many lowball offers, so I can't necessarily find fault with him. I agree, it's probably not the most tactful thing to do if you want to sell expensive clothing but isn't Grailed notorious for people lowballing users?

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Put up decent photos, descriptions and measurements and there should be less questions.

Re the shrinking raw denim market, it's probably had too many hot washes, just give it cold showers from here on and it'll stabilise.

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For reasons I can't articulate, I really don't feel the draw to post anymore (or even buy new things), but I'm still a huge denim fan...

I'm sad the crotch on these rjb is starting to go though :'( I don't want to send these away for months to indigo proof!

image.jpg

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The only thing about the Thai scene is, I wonder how much of it is a bubble; yes, there are a lot of loaded college kids into the scene, but I've also read that credit card use has skyrocketed there as people are trying desperately to keep up with the Joneses (or Jetatikarns, if you will). Hopefully it's not the case; some brands might be eating their lunch thanks to those kids.

 

@mlwdp

I'm forgetting a lot, but here's a general sample:

Wanderingsnake

workingmansblues

yawara_miura

michiya186

truevintage_sendai

mushroom_vintage

vintage_work.boots

vintage_engineer_boots

vintage_american_workwear

white.whale.company

two face Kumamoto 

k hope vintage 

outstanding han

prometheo k

Edited by Iron Horse
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