Denim Blunders, Reflections and General Nonsense.

[chicote]

I always wonder how these new brands get the money together to buy so many vintage machines... a single 43200g is like $4000 now!

 

I've also been curious about how these brands prepare themselves technically for the launch of their brands. The only way I see it being viable for small brands is if the owners are slowly buying and learning on their machines over a period of several years (like I imagine Roy did, or Rising Sun)... or maybe contracting out the labor to people who already have the skills and hardware (like William with Tender). But the impression I get with brands like Lawless or Traveller, which always seem to be opening and closing all the time, is that they just jump into it, and thus we see so many poorly thought-out designs and marketing strategies, not to mention problems with QC.

 

If anyone who has experience in or knowledge of a small brand wants to chime in, I'd be really interested to hear your take—there's a (pretty big) possibility my theory is entirely wrong.

[Redheadbluebottom]

I've only had positive experiences commenting on other people's selvedge jeans - and other people commenting on mine.

 

This barista type fellow at a coffee shop was positively elated that I ID'ed his pretty awesome FTH 3002s and proceeded to talk about them while making the coffee. It started with him complimenting my chore jacket (cheap H/M thing, so yeah, it doesn't have to be the expensive brands).

 

One of the bosses at my work wears Samurais, ONIs and such, and I was so relieved when I found out. He even pointed me to a good tailor in our city, so all in all, I don't think I would ever shy away from commenting on peoples denim if I was positive they own it because they know what they're doing. So what if someone should feel weird, it's always worth a shot!

[ColonelAngus]

I've also been curious about how these brands prepare themselves technically for the launch of their brands. The only way I see it being viable for small brands is if the owners are slowly buying and learning on their machines over a period of several years (like I imagine Roy did, or Rising Sun)... or maybe contracting out the labor to people who already have the skills and hardware (like William with Tender). But the impression I get with brands like Lawless or Traveller, which always seem to be opening and closing all the time, is that they just jump into it, and thus we see so many poorly thought-out designs and marketing strategies, not to mention problems with QC.

 

 

 

 

my theory is that quite a few denim start-ups simply don't know what the hell they're doing and want to get in on the denim fad. The problem I see is that there are very few qualified sewers working in the garment industry, so it's a dying trade. Unless you have the production capacity to sew hundreds of pairs of jeans per month I honestly don't see how a new brand with very little in the way of contacts or experience can get anything made. Ande Whall is one of the exceptions of someone who learned his trade and put it to practice, but even that ended up not working out in the end.

[Chubacca]

For some reason why, the Instagram trend of laying down all your belongings/outfit on a table and aligning them perfectly and doing a birdseye view picture annoys me.  

[MileHighEvertonian]

^I've always thought of that routine like the end of a weird card game when you show your opponents what you've been holding. My nicely folded purple colorway flannel and indigo/indigo slim straights on my west elm coffee table beats your nicely folded vintage baseball shirt, ebbets field cap, selvedge chinos and ikea side table. 

[Iron Horse]

I always wonder how these new brands get the money together to buy so many vintage machines... a single 43200g is like $4000 now!

 

 

People often have backers or partners if they're getting into this field. People with deeper pockets. Creators tend to not mention these people though.     

 

Or, they made their real money in another business, and this is kind of like a very nice hobby for them.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Iron Horse

[Aries]

From my reading of the last few pages, the main critique I think coming through stems from a sense of deceit.

 

All clothing is an extension of identity (as fundamentally an extension of one's skin). It is an innately social act. Whenever we select an item to wear (exceptions to the rule aside such as work-mandated clothing), we are seeing it as a social creature, thinking through not just how we see ourselves but how we want to be perceived. 

 

In this way, just as when one puts on a 'phony' accent, as social creatures we feel a sense of revulsion when we think someone is misrepresenting who they are: as all social interaction is based upon trust, we feel our sense of trust is being violated.

 

I imagine that's what critics here are getting at: certain images trigger disgust as they feel inauthentic, i.e. deceptive, wearing "someone else's" skin.

[TheIntelligentHoodwinker]

My nicely folded purple colorway flannel and indigo/indigo slim straights on my west elm coffee table beats your nicely folded vintage baseball shirt, ebbets field cap, selvedge chinos and ikea side table. 

 

Haha. Top Trumps style.

 

But yeah, I hate that whole Instagram curated trope. You know the rest of the house probably looks like a complete shit hole, aside from that carefully tidied area.

[Niro]

well from some of the pics I have seen taken like that, it was from an account of an actual store, so I thought that was a neat way of advertising products sold instore that could be used to make an outfit.

 

After the first few, I haven't clicked into any, cos i'm not interested, but i am guessing that individuals use that idea to show off their outfits

[Coolguyzack]

From a thread on reddit:

"I disagree with those companies. Their jean blends just aren't as durable anymore because they've both stepped away from "raw denim." Find a company that supplies raw denim "selvedge" jeans instead. 100% cotton. 0% of that crap that all the major brands put in them. The minute synthetic fibers are mixed in, it weakens the jeans and takes years and years off their life. Dense fabric raw denim jeans with a selvedge finished seam should last you your whole life with infrequent use, or 6-10 years with daily use. It will be expensive for sure but too not much more than duluth or ll-bean. And it will be a much better use of your $$.

Check the company Naked & Famous for their raw denim jeans, otherwise /r/rawdenim has more info.

*Edit: changed APC to Naked & Famous after reading some negative testimony on /r/rawdenim. However, I currently have APC going on 3 years that look brand new.*"

Do you guys think this is a joke? It's almost like satire

[big truck]

The superiority complex at play here is disturbing.

[setterman]

From a thread on reddit:

"Dense fabric raw denim jeans with a selvedge finished seam should last you your whole life with infrequent use, or 6-10 years with daily use."

Do you guys think this is a joke? It's almost like satire

 

I don't think the quote's author has ever worn in a pair of raw denim.  6 to 10 years of daily wear?  Ha!  What planet is he living on?  

[Fooleo]

I may see on average a single pair of raws per day at my job, and working in a yuppie-centric neighborhood it looks mostly like Gap, unbranded and etc. The fellows wearing them mostly appear to have the "I care just enough about my style and GQ said selvedge = style" mentality but not much interest beyond that. Hardly ever have I seen any well worn pairs, of a higher tier than maybe APC or a random 3sixteen here and there. I once saw a dude in a pair of 666 IHs, and asked him how he liked the fit of the 666, and he just had no idea what I was talking about (regarding the fit #) but was excited I noticed his jeans.. If I see someone with something cool I almost always speak up to them, but in the few times it has happened (dudes wearing Engineered Garments, orslow etc) I usually end up sounding like a huge fanboy and weird them out lol.. 

Edited November 8, 2016 by Fooleo

[itsbenhere]

I will be very happy the day someone speaks up and is like "dude, you're wearing al flat head and rjb. That's crazy cool"

I actually saw a young guy wearing some worn flat heads at a very "normal" mall in Orange County. Blew my mind. By the time I decided to track him down he disappeared though

[itsbenhere]

I don't think the quote's author has ever worn in a pair of raw denim.  6 to 10 years of daily wear?  Ha!  What planet is he living on?

I need to see some raw denim worn every day for 6 years.

[goodrain]

I have seen a good amount of men/women of various ages rocking selvedge denim in Tokyo over the past few days, and the top prize goes to 

 

[Niro]

What an OD lad! (OD for original denim)

[SuperJackle]

There's something very appealing to me about patchwork repairs and other home repairs. I know that darning is supposedly the strongest way to go, but it usually looks underwhelming unless done by Rainbowe. Even then it just blends in so well you'd never know.

[Geeman]

I have seen a good amount of men/women of various ages rocking selvedge denim in Tokyo over the past few days, and the top prize goes to 

 

What a guy!

When I was in Tokyo a few months back I was actually surprised at the lack of people I saw in Selvedge or associated wear. I wasn't expecting a denim utopia with everybody rocking Samurai head to toe or anything but still expected to see more.

[aho]

goodrain, thank you for posting, that is something to brighten my day on one of the darkest in American history...

 

Geeman, interesting that you say so; I was in Tokyo two months ago and everything was selvedge (of various brands, not necessarily repro or the brands we follow on sufu), and more impressively, vintage selvedge was huge in Harajuku on men, women, and old men and women! Even saw a few guys decked in full Flat Head and chain wallets, etc. 

[edmond]

Im here now its ok.

[Maynard Friedman]

So who's going to buy Trump's new range of MADE IN USA jeans then?

[mikecch]

Make denim great again!

[Iron Horse]

Did I say overalls were next or what, folks?

 

Believe me.

 

[kiya]

Im here now its ok.

 

 

Dude, i saw you for like five seconds last night at the Toyo show and then you disappeared. 

[SuperJackle]

Careful guys, or he'll make the jeans himself - and have Mexico pay for them.

[SuperJackle]

So between my last couple of denim purchases(JB high taper, fc 1101, Ande whall buffalo) I've realized how much I really love having a fuller thigh and yet a bit of taper. Granted the JB's are a bit extreme, sometimes to my dismay. Who else makes something similar to a fc 1101? It's probably one of, if not the most versatile cut I own. I have a 710xx which is similar, but the thickness I find prohibiting.

It just seems like either most cuts are full on repro stove pipe cuts(which I don't dislike), or they have thigh room but take it way too extreme on hem taper.

Why is that btw? It seams like when a brand introduces a "lifter" cut, they suddenly decide to make the hem even smaller than that on their skinny cuts.

[karanimal]

I think the Flat Head 3009 fits the bill pretty nicely for a slight taper and somewhat generous thigh 

[beautiful_FrEaK]

^ just make sure the rise is high enough for you. It's quite a diffeence bewteen the 3009 and FC 1101.

You might wanna take a look at UES 400T

[SuperJackle]

I was on the fence for awhile about the 3009 and for a size 32/33 I think the rise would be too low. Had that impression about the 400t as well... rivet&hide's measurements seem promising. Although I wonder if the 10.75" rise on a size 32 would shrink down too much after repeated washes.

Edited November 11, 2016 by SuperJackle