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Shoes that look better with age...


kiya

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Oakstreet bootmakers ang thoughts their crap right?

I have handled (not worn or owned) the trenchboot and it seems well made and decent.  I dont think its worth what they ask for it.  The trail oxfords I have are comfortable but they use a fake welt to look like a stitch down construction, when they are standard mocc construction.  Not a huge deal in the big scheme of things but they were very evasive when I asked about it and they did an awful job fixing the fake welt when it came unglued.  I mean a terrible job.  I personally think they are riding the heritage craze and at the end of the day, nothing special.  

Edited by garden gnomes in space
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Anyone experienced an issue like this on Alden?

noLagen.jpg

I just got these today and didn't notice that imperfection until I got home. They are a b-width shoe so replacing them would be a pretty long wait :/

honestly, as annoying as it is thats pretty mild compared to some of the bullshit Alden puts out.  I love my Indy's but Alden QC seems to miss a lot of slop.  

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Having picked up a few too many new Aldens as of late, I can say that stray threads seem to come standard these days...I personally don't mind or let it get to me as I wear them more as dress boots rather than dress boots but totally get the frustration. 

 

Speaking of new Aldens:

26257982974_4a9436857f_c.jpg

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Very nice Max Power & Aho.

Well I went back to the retailer today on my Alden's and he assured me that he had someone that could restitch them. I thought they might be an easy repair and he seemed to think so. I'll drop them off next week and hope for the best.

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Oakstreet bootmakers ang thoughts their crap right?

 

There's one of those Pop Up Flea things going on in Austin right now and Oakstreet was there, holy cringe.

Guys walking about wearing high sextuple cuffed LVC's, gingham shirts and wax canvas aprons on helping people try shoes on.

Like...what?  :huh:

I think they're just riding the tend. Wouldn't give them my money I don't think.

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Besides, the monster cuffs, is that really an usual or "hipster" outfit? Maybe if they had big rim glasses and handlebar mustaches and immense beards but what makes it any more cringey from what others have posted here on sufu?

 

Oakstreet ain't my cup of tea and I don't particularly care for their brand, but let their work (or lack of) speak for them.

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I think it was the aprons that put it over the top for me. And they were all matching almost exactly, like a corporate job uniform.

Plus the whole event just screamed gentrification since the location they were using used to be home to a local thrift store that helped out local homeless people with clothes for job interviews and other needs all the time. That thrift store was my buddy's first job in Austin and we walked around and saw 50 dollar coffee mugs being sold and just seeing the stark contrast just struck a chord with me I guess.

But those musings probably belongs in another section of sufu...

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Ah, I gotcha. As someone who used to work in non-profit in an area that also has seen gentrification I can relate. Though from what I've seen it's been mostly good and the negative I've only heard/read.

 

Anyway, to keep on topic. Here's my collection of boots. Whites were my first ever boots and first ever customs! Even after doing research I'm quite lucky they fit well. Whites had pretty much kept my boot itch in check so haven't really felt a need to expand my little collection. Vibergs are the newest ones. 

 

Left to right: crockett and jones, whites, vibergs, enzo bonafe

 

 

z5rYnB4.jpg

 

Fv72Txh.jpg

 

 

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At least on r/goodyearwelt, it seems like most greatly prefer a boot to be stitchdown rather than good year welt (ironically...), can someone explain to me why that is?

 

I'd say its more about the look of the stitch down vs the goodyearwelt. Viberg also uses a more complex stitchdown method that is more difficult to perform. 

 

http://imgur.com/a/9iYnF

 

Here's viberg stitchdown vs viberg gyw. I much prefer the look of the stitchdown and think it looks much more impressive, sleek, and badass. Viberg's method also is more difficult to do with shell and some exotic leathers, which means any new viberg shell boots will more than likely be goodyearwelted 

 

Edit: stitchdown is also much more labour intensive than goodyearwelt, has a higher material cost (more brass nails for stitchdown in the heel vs a 360 goodyearwelt), goodyearwelt prevents more uppers failing during lasting and stitching since the machines for goodwearwelt uses less pressure across the boot to perform the welting and stitching.

Edited by karanimal
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Not an expert on this whole matter but a coupe years back, I got sucked into the whole discussion on different forums and I think it really boils down to goodyear construction requiring the use of gemming which has the potential of failing because it's usually a canvas strip and could possibly rot with long-term wear and esp if corners are cut with the canvas and cement used while stitchdown doesn't use gemming, requires more skill and time to do and thus is considered a superior construction method. I think the fears around gemming are a little exaggerated as I've had a couple goodyear welted boots that have not failed after years of wear and haven't needed to do more than resole them but then again, I'm not exactly using the boots for anything more than walking around a lot. Personally, I like the look of stitch down vs good year welt. 

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Perhaps another reason some prefer SD to GYW, is that w/ GYW the welt is stitched to a ply rib (aka gemming, and other names depending on maker), which is sometimes made out of linen, plastic, etc. The ply rib is glued to the mid-sole. This is the only connection between the upper and lower parts of the boots. It's possible that the glue could fail and the bottom half of the boot could separate from the upper. But when has anyone ever heard of that actually happening? I haven't, but that not to sa it hasn't happened... 

 

A filler then needs to be added on the inner boundary of the welt, as the welt is proud of the midsole by some measure, and there needs to be a flat surface to attach the out-sole to. A slurry of ground up cork and glue are common on better quality boots, but Chippewa (I had two pair that I can verify this) use a material that looks like ground up bottom-of-the-barrel carpet padding. Their welt wasn't even leather, some sort of composite/plastic. Any filler will compact, and this is sold to customers as "molding to your foot." Marketing BS, IMO. 

 

With SD, the vamp leather is stretched over the top of last and folded at 90d (roughly) and extended outward to allow the mid-sole to be stitched onto it. No ply rib required to attach the upper to the lower. No filler needed to provide a flat surface to attach the out-sole. 

 

I've also read that SD is more water-resistant than GYW. But really, if you're concerned about water-proof boots, then you need to be looking elsewhere, like LLB duck boots, pacs, or the like. Leather acts like wood in some respects in that it will absorb water if not treated and used properly - if the end grain is exposed, it will absorb water, as the end grain in the least durable and the cells are exposed. End grain is also the least durable against abrasion. It will wick in moisture, and moisture will deteriorate glue, leather, fabric lining, etc. The midsole end grain of all SD and GYW boots is exposed and will wick moisture to some degree. 

 

It seems all of the PNW boot makers that make boots for loggers, smoke jumpers, real work, etc. use SD, and that says a lot in itself. 

 

Unless you're doing hard manual labor, or have a real bias one way or another, any of the best quality makers do a fine job. It seems GYW has more ways to cut corners. Personal preference I think. My $0.02. 

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Thanks a lot for the help guys. So stitchdown construction doesn't use gemming? Didn't know that, and not going to lie, that is a plus. Also, i think that stitchdown construction has a more rugged look than GYW, which to me is dressier.

 

Too bad I waited too long to exchange my boondockers and now viberg's site (only place with them stitchdown) is out  :(

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They look great for sure. Except even before knowing really any difference between stitchdown and GYW, I wanted stitchdown due to the more rugged look (like i said before!) Club Monaco said they were the exact same as on viberg's site, but CM'S are GYW and not stitchdown. I think they're too small anyway though! Even just standing around my feet feel choked. and it's the 2045 last...

Edited by itsbenhere
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Thanks a lot for the help guys. So stitchdown construction doesn't use gemming? Didn't know that, and not going to lie, that is a plus. Also, i think that stitchdown construction has a more rugged look than GYW, which to me is dressier.

 

Too bad I waited too long to exchange my boondockers and now viberg's site (only place with them stitchdown) is out  :(

 

I think as long as it's from a reputable brand, GYW vs stitchdown probably won't matter much but then again we are on a forum where many differences in details are small and probably don't mean much to most people but we notice and care. I'm a little wary of viberg's switch to goodyear welt but i have 3 pairs of vibergs and they're still hand down the best boots i've worn so I have no reason really to doubt them. 

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I'm a moron... need to pay more attention when I post. Meant to say originally wanted stitchdown just for looks.

 

I agree that I think it's extremely unlikely that those on this forum would have a real problem with viberg's GYW that's due to the nature of the technique, rather than some fluke thing. But like you said, even if I'm never going to need it, I like knowing that what I'm buying is 100% made with the best or most difficult-to-accomplish technique.

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Keep in mind that the differences between SD and GYW only apply to the front 270 (unless a full 360 GYW is used). The heel is still nailed to the midsole, with the upper leather wrapper around and sandwiched between. And there's there are varying methods of quality and durability. 

 

This vid is titled as GYW process, but I think it's mislabeled; I think it's actually Norwegian Welt, which I find superior. You can see the welt being stitched to the midsole and upper leathers in one process. 

 

 

 

Contrast to this Redwing vid. Skip to about 8:00 and it clearly shows the plastic ply rib being glued to the mid-sole. This is obviously only one variation on GYW, and just one way Redwing does for this line. 

 

 
 
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Believe me the price will be good. In doing it just for your guys sake not to profit. I wanna make the ultimate engineer with a good price. Cordovan colors in burgundy and black available horsehide in black available , cowhide also is possible pm me if you need more info.

Old last

Low vamp

Heel with 1 lift

Biltrite heel

Biltrite outsole ( can choose half or full sole from dr sole or vibram too)

9 inch height or 10 inch

Double celastic heel

No toe celastics

Steel iron shank

Copper rivets ( if you want but I suggest no water goes in quickly)

Roller buckles brass or nickle

Straps are longer than usual maybe an inch more

Cut off top

Single midsole

Storm welt

Veg tan insole

Goat lining on vamp

No lining on shaft

All sounds good man. Waiting for the price.

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Poor Goodyear welt taking an undeserved beating in here!

I'm really not trying to bash GYW, although it prolly seems that way, LOL. It's one construction method that has several ways that corners can be cut, yet makers still pass off top quality construction, just because it's GYW. Better makers will use better materials techniques, and there will prolly never be any issues. It's more important to understand how each maker constructs their products, rather than rely simply on a term. 

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You're right, my explanation was a generalization where it should have been specific.

On the Vibergs. If I look at two pairs, say their horsehide 2030, and one pair is Stitchdown and the other GYW, the Stitchdown looks handcrafted. I prefer that feeling I get.

I think the GYW of other makers looks great with their products.

I wonder how many others would choose Stitchfown over GYW on Vibergs if that was the only difference.

EDIT - Horsehide 1035, not 2030. I wear the .com HH1035Stitchdown.

Edited by ShootThePier
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  • sufu1 changed the title to Shoes that look better with age...

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