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homi29

fuck #menswear

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ok now i have officially lost all respect for mark mcnairy

http://store.heather...m/?pid=52007955

lWSj0.jpg

what the hell is this

Edited by Vampyrvargfesten

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Wow, thats on that '99 swap meet tip.

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I got through about 10 pages of this thread before the pure negativity had me wanting to cancel my Sufu account.

I was coming to Sufu years ago, and loving many aspects of it over Styleforum, and for the most part I still feel that way. But the beauty of classic denim and classic menswear is in the revelry of details, it is in the stories behing each idiosyncracy. Without the individuals and the history, we may as well all be buying the cheapest mass produced garbage we find.

When I was in Japan, nearly 12 years ago, I was working with some of the original guys that bought the old Cone Mills looms and started weaving denim in the early 90's. The guys who worked for those guys went on to do something different, taking that story, that experience, and making it something new.

The people I am lucky enough to work with in classic tailored clothing now have similar stories, only older. The man most renowned for starting the tailoring tradition in the south of Italy trained two of the tailors I currently work with, both of whom are 70 plus years old and fiercely passionate about their (very different) regional styles. The angle of a shoulder, the presence of a front dart on a jacket - these are the minutiae as relevent as whether you wear a Dubow or Roughwear A2. They aren't important at all, of course, but it's something people who are interested in this aesthetic can be passionate and opinionated about.

I'll admit that there is much to cringe about in menswear. As a man with a bad temper, I know that throwing around phrases like 'Fuck Off' and giving the middle finger as a fashion gesture reeks of adolescent temper tantrum. But growing up in a less than ideal cultural and social community, plagued by illiteracy, crime and gang culture, I find the feigned ignorance and rap talk equally juvenile.

As a community, where I have always had great affection for Super Future is in it's willingness to treat the stupidity involved in fashion for what it is, ignore it, and enjoy what makes the industry great. I guess I have been away from Sufu too long.

And to bring this back to point - Agyesh is in product development for Isaia, is incredibly talented, and looks as comfortable and natural in his aesthetic as Pharrell looks in his. I've met them both, sat down to talk to both, and both own their styles. Agyesh has talent that will see him become the next generation continuing this industry, long after the McNasty's have run out of gimmicks to play and rap references to insult the consumer with.

desu

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Desu, that was a post that I found well-written and certainly resonates with me in some ways. I work at a traditional menswear store but I prefer the SuFu aesthetic outlook.

This phrase struck me, and the difference between what you wrote and how a similar phrase would be written best explains the culture of SuFu that I have experienced.: "As a community, where I have always had great affection for Super Future is in it's willingness to treat the stupidity involved in fashion for what it is, ignore it, and enjoy what makes the industry great. I guess I have been away from Sufu too long."

The SuFu of today sees the stupidity involved in fashion, but no longer ignores it. SuFu is now one of the few places where people are unapologetic about calling others out. SuFu is unbridled honesty from most users, especially when it comes to rep. I personally think that it needs to be. Honesty as a value is being constantly degraded and when I come upon it, even when it is negative, it is a welcome addition to my day.

Not all of SuFu hates the #menswear aesthetic. But it is hard not to hate the attitude that now goes along with it. Consumerism is being pushed hard by magazines in the menswear vein (see GQ) and the juvenile lingo is perpetuated by Four Pins. Why couldn't a person be handsome? Why did they have to be crispy?

Honestly, #menswear wouldn't be nearly as bad if it weren't so clear that so many people are desperate to fit in and will throw money at that problem rather than thought. The society that we live in perpetuates this phenomena, but in clothing especially it shows and it is not flattering. My favorite WAYWT posters are always people who have an established sense of personal style that I believe they established through thought and experimentation.

Finally, I think there are a lot of people on here who do have an appreciation for the craftsmanship that goes into well made clothing (whether that be denim, menswear, of high fashion). However, its rough to see those products on people who have not educated themselves on clothing but use their money to purchase it anyway. In the same way that car lovers cringe as some wealthy dumbass wrecks his Bugatti, so SuFu cringes at a birds of Givenchy Birds of Paradise tee, Rick Owens layered under it, and Raf Holographic Hightops on a 16 year old. The collective feeling is that you haven't earned it, you don't know what you are doing, and you are ruining it for the rest of us.

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ok, it seems like both of you have narrowed "#menswear" to something a lot more exclusive than what this thread was aimed at. the problem i have, and think others at least partially have, is the over(t)ly-narcissistic nature of it all - people wanting to dress 'hip,' to be in a cool group and getting their picture taken, etc. it's the circle-jerk that is lame as fuck. and it's a marketing ploy at least as i see it, this "#menswear" shit is false nostalgia - a guise for tradition but not really such. and there's little to nothing creative about these types. it's the same dribble in different colors.

actual classical tailoring doesn't bother me, and while i think people get way too obsessive over denim, that's not what this thread is aimed at (at least last i remember reading it).

also, i think sufu can be more brutally honest about fits in a lot of ways but at the same time i wouldn't praise people's assessment of waywt fits too much. people here can be victim of the same popularity ranking that exists on other forums, the photography (though in a bizarre way on this point - not necessarily high quality = good), and (this one is more or less just my own opinion but others may agree) people here like shock value - even sometimes if it's not really pulled off well. i will say that i think that the expectation for something new and different does lead to good things in general though

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^much agreement with the three above.

as much as i can appreciate the details and construction considerations that go into proper tailoring and repro denim etc etc, sometimes it just feels like it all goes overboard.

going to quote a friend of mine on it instead

"it's taking the antithesis of fast fashion and turning it into fast fashion."

In the same way that car lovers cringe as some wealthy dumbass wrecks his Bugatti, so SuFu cringes at a birds of Givenchy Birds of Paradise tee, Rick Owens layered under it, and Raf Holographic Hightops on a 16 year old.

Edited by gndm

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I got through about 10 pages of this thread before the pure negativity had me wanting to cancel my Sufu account.

I was coming to Sufu years ago, and loving many aspects of it over Styleforum, and for the most part I still feel that way. But the beauty of classic denim and classic menswear is in the revelry of details, it is in the stories behing each idiosyncracy. Without the individuals and the history, we may as well all be buying the cheapest mass produced garbage we find.

When I was in Japan, nearly 12 years ago, I was working with some of the original guys that bought the old Cone Mills looms and started weaving denim in the early 90's. The guys who worked for those guys went on to do something different, taking that story, that experience, and making it something new.

The people I am lucky enough to work with in classic tailored clothing now have similar stories, only older. The man most renowned for starting the tailoring tradition in the south of Italy trained two of the tailors I currently work with, both of whom are 70 plus years old and fiercely passionate about their (very different) regional styles. The angle of a shoulder, the presence of a front dart on a jacket - these are the minutiae as relevent as whether you wear a Dubow or Roughwear A2. They aren't important at all, of course, but it's something people who are interested in this aesthetic can be passionate and opinionated about.

I'll admit that there is much to cringe about in menswear. As a man with a bad temper, I know that throwing around phrases like 'Fuck Off' and giving the middle finger as a fashion gesture reeks of adolescent temper tantrum. But growing up in a less than ideal cultural and social community, plagued by illiteracy, crime and gang culture, I find the feigned ignorance and rap talk equally juvenile.

As a community, where I have always had great affection for Super Future is in it's willingness to treat the stupidity involved in fashion for what it is, ignore it, and enjoy what makes the industry great. I guess I have been away from Sufu too long.

And to bring this back to point - Agyesh is in product development for Isaia, is incredibly talented, and looks as comfortable and natural in his aesthetic as Pharrell looks in his. I've met them both, sat down to talk to both, and both own their styles. Agyesh has talent that will see him become the next generation continuing this industry, long after the McNasty's have run out of gimmicks to play and rap references to insult the consumer with.

desu

Ethan, the #menswear virus is spreading its unbuckled suede double monk-straps like dirty, herpes riddled tentacles, all over fashion and lifestyle magazines, mid-tier brands and Italian menswear makers, every fucking blog and tumblr in the world, most forums and even the perennially late and unhip NewYorkTimes. Can't we have a little space here to hate in peace without getting all mensweared? We're the last of the Gauls and you Romans shall never conquer our little village of drop-crotch pants pseudo goth ridiculousness, euro designer faggotry and urban-tech ninja for creative office workers outfits.

menswear.jpg

Edited by Fuuma

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Not all of SuFu hates the #menswear aesthetic. But it is hard not to hate the attitude that now goes along with it.

i think the main reason why this movement gets shit on is because of the peacock-mentality & one-upmanship of bloggers and the over-saturated marketing and "manufactured nostalgia" as others have pointed out.

the problem i have, and think others at least partially have, is the over(t)ly-narcissistic nature of it all - people wanting to dress 'hip,' to be in a cool group and getting their picture taken, etc. it's the circle-jerk that is lame as fuck. and it's a marketing ploy at least as i see it, this "#menswear" shit is false nostalgia - a guise for tradition but not really such. and there's little to nothing creative about these types. it's the same dribble in different colors.

Well said x 3

Totally agree with this and actually tried to say something along the same lines at the top of this page.

I probably expressed myself badly though judging by neg rep.

Edited by Crat

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eg fuckyeahmenswear

Fuck yeah menswear is drenched in self-mockery....

...isn't it?

This stuff has to be satire.

Edited by Crat

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I say increase the hate.

Are people really supposed to give props to the "try too hard" crowd?

Someone used the term "fake nostalgia", and that is exactly what it is.

Why live in the past when the present is awsome?

Everyone getting along and saying all these fits are dope is phony.

but this is just my opinion. I personally think men spending so much time and energy on fashion is odd...but to each his own.

Edited by jilla82

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I haven't been as frustrated by #menswear pseudo elitism as this in a while.

The DR/untucked t-shirt look that keeps getting posted is sloppy and horrid. Step yo game up gents.

Fucking "Step yo game up gents." A classic example of the narcissistic delusions that #meanswear engenders. As if this guy's brown brogues actually contribute to his validity as a man or improve his eligibility to women (I'm sure this guy is either married or fat and lonely). Does this person truly think it's valid to criticise a rider's jacket with a t shirt? Even within the realms of stupid menswear logic, that 'sloppy and horrid' look is really just about as classic as whatever he wears.

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Well said x 3

Totally agree with this and actually tried to say something along the same lines at the top of this page.

I probably expressed myself badly though judging by neg rep.

but this is how u dress though

e1zdy.jpg

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clothes n shit

whatever there are too many people out there and too much to do for me to sweat the corny cats that so many people spend time hating on

to be fair i do spend enough time thinking about clothing to loathe that mcnairy thing and feel bad for that poor dog. but end of the day, whatever. at least where i'm at, i wish i had enough time to sweat homies with the fresh pompadours and their first pair of desert boots

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but this is how u dress though

-pic-

Haha, nice one for this thread :blush:

Sometimes, sure. This was meant to be terrible though but feel free to hate.

I stand by my earlier comment regarding the general #menswear attitude.

Edited by Crat

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and yet the "crispiest" of menswear fits still looks like they came from a bad JC Penney catalog...

no.

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Haha, nice one for this thread :blush:

Sometimes, sure. This was meant to be terrible though but feel free to hate.

I stand by my earlier comment regarding the general #menswear attitude.

Don't need to explain yourself. I'm just being an ass.

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