Shoes that look better with age...

[Leonard Leroy]

Amlai is the best.

[James Vincent]

My pair of Ian Harold boots. They're a classic Australian workboot; fairwelt machine sewn and brass wire screwed, made from a single piece of oak tanned bull hide and lined with kangaroo leather. Poron padded footbed, covered elastic sides and oil resistant cork rubber compound sole and heel. Sadly I don't have space for them in my apartment, they'll be going up for sale soon.

[amlai]

The wholecut chelsea boot must be an Australian thing! Nobody else seems to make them that way. I thought that RM Williams was the only one who constructed their boots in that manner. Same with the brass wire screwed on sole. I don't think that there is anyone in the US who can replace the soles in that manner.

Kangaroo lined? Seems like quite the work boot... though I like the chisel toe on the RM Williams Craftsman better.

[James Vincent]

It must be in the British colonial roots mixed with a bit of Outback toughness

[blake]

My pair of Ian Harold boots. They're a classic Australian workboot; fairwelt machine sewn and brass wire screwed, made from a single piece of oak tanned bull hide and lined with kangaroo leather. Poron padded footbed, covered elastic sides and oil resistant cork rubber compound sole and heel. Sadly I don't have space for them in my apartment, they'll be going up for sale soon.

what size are these and where are they going to be sold?

[GregNYC]

The wholecut chelsea boot must be an Australian thing! Nobody else seems to make them that way.

I've seen EG, C & J and Lobb's Chelsea boots, and no one makes them as well as the Australians. More elegant lines perhaps, but very difficult to pull on and off, and not wholecut. I saw a pair of Lobbs with a broken pull-tab on display. Why? Because at that time they used only single pull-tabs.

RM Williams says, "If your arm can take it, the pull-tab can take it."

I thought that RM Williams was the only one who constructed their boots in that manner. Same with the brass wire screwed on sole. I don't think that there is anyone in the US who can replace the soles in that manner.

I'd never heard of them either. RM W in New York says that the brass wire screw-soles are for equestrian use only, and would only last like 2 months of everyday NYC walking. Furthermore, they have to send the boots to Australia, as not even the best cobblers in NYC can do this - they probably don't have the screws.

[GregNYC]

A good example of the difference in use between horsehide and shell cordovan is A-2 jackets. They are made from non-shell, the upper cutaneous layers of the horse, especially around the horse's chest and rump areas. It has wrinkles and range marks. You can tell that shell corcovan is from the subcutaneous layers because it has no pore or follicle holes. Hence its smoothness.

Another reason horsehide was used around WWII was that it is more water resistant than steerhide.

[Happy Hooligan]

A good example of the difference in use between horsehide and shell cordovan is A-2 jackets. They are made from non-shell, the upper cutaneous layers of the horse, especially around the horse's chest and rump areas. It has wrinkles and range marks. You can tell that shell corcovan is from the subcutaneous layers because it has no pore or follicle holes. Hence its smoothness.

Another reason horsehide was used around WWII was that it is more water resistant than steerhide.

farmers were also phasing out horses for tractors by the millions and horse was cheap.

I prefer horsehide to any other for a work jacket. And you're a fool to buy lambskin jackets from the mall, unless you want a jacket that will rip and fall apart in a year....

[theetruscan]

I'd never heard of them either. RM W in New York says that the brass wire screw-soles are for equestrian use only, and would only last like 2 months of everyday NYC walking. Furthermore, they have to send the boots to Australia, as not even the best cobblers in NYC can do this - they probably don't have the screws.

There is a lot about this from Sator over on styleforum.

In brief he says the NYC shop has no fucking clue what they're talking about. The screwed on soles last as long, or longer than the normal soles.

He also looked at a way to make more elegant looking RM Williams and came up with a specific MTO configuration (up a size, down a width, pegged sole) that leads to a much narrower sole.

The thread is here.

http://styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=21179&highlight=williams+all+you+ever+wanted

It contains more information that I can really summarize, but most of it is in the first post. In short, pegging/brass-screws make the shoe much sleeker than the other welt options, it wears down with the leather, no faster. Full resoles may require being done at RM Williams, but honestly, full resoles shouldn't happen more often than every few years at the most.

[Biff15]

this thread delivers.

It sure does. I'm holding out on showing my aldens & redwings until they're worthy enough...

[GregNYC]

There is a lot about this from Sator over on styleforum.

In brief he says the NYC shop has no fucking clue what they're talking about. The screwed on soles last as long, or longer than the normal soles.

I know, that thread is more than you ever wanted to know about RM Williams . I talked to someone (forget who) at the shop who read that Styleforum thread, and they said the folks ordering vastly overestimated the longevity of these soles. Anyway, I decided not to buy in, but I do like the design....

[theetruscan]

I know, that thread is more than you ever wanted to know about RM Williams . I talked to someone (forget who) at the shop who read that Styleforum thread, and they said the folks ordering vastly overestimated the longevity of these soles. Anyway, I decided not to buy in, but I do like the design....

I've a pair on order (4-6 month wait, sigh). Will let you know.

[James Vincent]

Wow, that styleforum thread is pretty epic! Much better info than R.M.'s own webpage.

what size are these and where are they going to be sold?

Size 11.5 UK, which translates to 12-12.5 US, and they'll probably go on the supermarket.

[grilled cheese]

I have a pair of the RM forum boots that Sator put together. I like them quite a bit--and they certainly are sleek. Perhaps a little too sleek for wearing with jeans in my opinion, but take this with a grain of salt (I know there's people here that like wearing their C&J handgrades with jeans, I'm just not one of them). In fact, I hesitate to wear them with anything but my slimmest dress pants. I prefer the regular Craftsmans for use with jeans.

The forum boots also run pretty narrow. Etruscan, I trust you probably adjusted for this, but I worry for you as you've mentioned you have very wide feet.

Regarding the sole/brass screws... I don't really forsee any major durability issues. My boots have some decent wear, and it doesn't look there's gonna be any trouble. We'll see. They are noticably less comfortable (mainly in the forefoot) than most of my other dress shoes, but not uncomfortable. Maybe that's why the NYC store folks (I agree that they largely don't know their bumskis from their elbows) don't recommend them. I like my pair, but I end up passing them by a lot for other shoes in my rotation.

Just .02 from the cheese....

Easy

[GregNYC]

You know, come to think of it, maybe it's like this - the folks ordering the forum boots plan to wear them as dress shoes like an Edward Green or Vass or Lobb. So of course they'll wear longer than if one wore them Red-Wing/Blundstone knowck-around style.

Anyway, any pics of those boots??

BTW, I'm one of the guys who would gladly wear C&J handgrades with jeans! But not too often since I can't wear jeans to work, and don't want to wear dressy boots on the weekend. On the weekend, I most often find myself reaching for my Corcorans, C & J Conistons, Indies, or good ol' RW 875s!

[grilled cheese]

You know, come to think of it, maybe it's like this - the folks ordering the forum boots plan to wear them as dress shoes like an Edward Green or Vass or Lobb. So of course they'll wear longer than if one wore them Red-Wing/Blundstone knowck-around style.

Anyway, any pics of those boots??

BTW, I'm one of the guys who would gladly wear C&J handgrades with jeans! But not too often since I can't wear jeans to work, and don't want to wear dressy boots on the weekend. On the weekend, I most often find myself reaching for my Corcorans, C & J Conistons, Indies, or good ol' RW 875s!

Amen. Great point re: the forum boots as dress shoes-- that's pretty much how I conceived of them and also how I wear them. My pair need a little edge dressing (which I'm out of at the moment), so you'll have to excuse that part... I'll try and get some pics up tomorrow night.

[amlai]

I have the single leather sole on the craftsman boot and come to think of it, the soles have worn out relatively quickly in comparison to my other leather soled shoes, particularly in the toe. However, I doubt that by going with the brass screwed soles that they would wear out any faster than the sewed on ones.

[indigo_junkie]

I have a thin rubber topy's sole glued onto the leather of my RMW Henley's (even though RMW recommends not putting anything on the sole). I figured I'd rather wear out a piece of $10 rubber than the actual leather sole. I'd just replace the rubber sole as it wears out (and still hasn't worn out yet, even after about 3 years of sporatic wear).

[GregNYC]

I've got several pairs of RMW Craftsman with leather soles. One I bought about 10 years ago as my only pair of wear-to-office shoes, and the leather soles lasted 5 years before I had to replace them. This was 5 maybe 6 days a week wearing them maybe a mile of sidewalk walking each day. I thought that was pretty good. Later when I went shoe crazy, I bought several more pair, and rotated them. After years of wearing mostly RMW and the Chelsea style, I became interested in other designs. Hence my branching out to C & J, Alden, Allen Edmunds. I'm still looking forward to some EG Shannons if I can get a good fit w/o traveling to London!

[coleslawyum]

^^^Here's a crazy question Greg… How many pairs of shoes/boots do you have now?

[batorizer]

And you're a fool to buy lambskin jackets from the mall, unless you want a jacket that will rip and fall apart in a year....

I gotta disagree with you there. I've got a lambskin jacket that was bought at the mall that is just about to hit the decade mark. I've had it since I was in high school. It's aged nicely and looks just like some of the popular predistressed leather jackets. Someday I'll put pics in the leather evo thread.

[amlai]

I'm still looking forward to some EG Shannons if I can get a good fit w/o traveling to London!

My advice is to just go to anywhere that will do an MTO in general and get fitted for whichever of the lasts you want as the Shannon is an exclusively MTO boot. (In NYC, this probably means their next trunk show.) To my recollection, I don't think any of the boots are stocked even at the London store. To top it off, the London store is like EG's customer prevention service. I believe this is a general sentiment about the London store.

[.Legacy]

I just recieved my RW 1914 and i absolutly love them. I was wondering what insoles people have used? I am looking for something that will be thin.

Help? Thanks.

[amlai]

Don't know about insoles specifically for RWs, but I've used the cheap ($3) Dr. Scholls and they're fine.

[GregNYC]

Coleslaw - right now I have 3 pair of good shoes and 14 pairs of boots. Next to come is White's Smokejumpers, but I haven't made the call yet.... One of the guys on shoeforum has something insane, like over 500 pairs of shoes, mostly bespoke, and the average cost per pair is over $1500.

Amlai - Yes, I'll wait till a trunk show. There's one EG stockist here in NYC but they don't know anything about shoes and I don't trust them to fit me.

Legacy - For thin insoles, I use Crockett & Jones leather insoles. Best I've ever tried. After trying every kind of insole imaginable from cobblers, including some great and quick hand work from Minas (Miz's shoe guy), my Indies were always uncomfortable. But with the C&J's, they fit fantastic! For thick insoles, there's something I use from Shoe Mania, it's a European insole, part leather part rubber. Very very comfortable. I'll look it up when I get home.

[.Legacy]

Coleslaw - right now I have 3 pair of good shoes and 14 pairs of boots. Next to come is White's Smokejumpers, but I haven't made the call yet.... One of the guys on shoeforum has something insane, like over 500 pairs of shoes, mostly bespoke, and the average cost per pair is over $1500.

Amlai - Yes, I'll wait till a trunk show. There's one EG stockist here in NYC but they don't know anything about shoes and I don't trust them to fit me.

Legacy - For thin insoles, I use Crockett & Jones leather insoles. Best I've ever tried. After trying every kind of insole imaginable from cobblers, including some great and quick hand work from Minas (Miz's shoe guy), my Indies were always uncomfortable. But with the C&J's, they fit fantastic! For thick insoles, there's something I use from Shoe Mania, it's a European insole, part leather part rubber. Very very comfortable. I'll look it up when I get home.

Thank you very very much! I will look into C & J

[the_state]

bape wing?

[GregNYC]

The thick insoles I use are for my RW 875s. I just remembered which ones they are - Mephisto Runoff insoles:

[amlai]

Amlai - Yes, I'll wait till a trunk show. There's one EG stockist here in NYC but they don't know anything about shoes and I don't trust them to fit me.

Legacy - For thin insoles, I use Crockett & Jones leather insoles.

I assume you mean Saks 5th Ave. I went to Saks and tried to figure out my size and when I wasn't sure, I decided to wait until I got to London. I ended up choosing the same size I had written down as my best guess. Believe it or not, I think the guy at EG in London knew even less than the guy at Saks. Either that or he didn't feel like helping me, which is why I say customer prevention service. (OK, I did show up after a redeye, unshaven, dressed in jeans, a rumpled shirt, and a pair of Indys, so maybe they didn't think I was actually going to buy something. But I think that's a lousy excuse for poor service.) Before resorting to EG in London, I did ask the guys at Saks if they could do a special order and they said no, so I guess they only do them during the trunk shows anyways.

Where does one get the C&J leather insoles? Can one find them here in NYC? I'd like to give them a try.

[GregNYC]

Here's where tried Edward Green:

Jay Kos Menswear

475 Park Avenue, between 57th and 58th streets

(212) 319-2770

There's another store at:

988 Lexington Ave, between 71st St & 72nd St)

(212) 327-2382

For Crockett & Jones -

4th Floor, Turnbull & Asser

42 East 57th Street

New York, NY 10022

Telephone: (212) 752-5700

Toll Free: (877) 887-6285

At C & J, ask for Cindy. She really knows shoes, has made several tours of the C & J plant in Northampton. The insoles I'm talking about are the thin, highly polished stiff leather insoles made for their hand-grade shoes. Available in black and brown. I have several pair. They don't fit every last of course; I think they are a 337. But - they're excellent because they're stiff and not drapey like the leather that Minas, and then Alex in midtown used. That papery softness of the other leather insoles allowed too much of the Indy's heel cushion to be felt - it felt like I was standing half off a ledge. And every non-leather insole I ever tried, even the thinnest classic Dr. Scholl's - were too thick and cost me half a size. Cindy says I have "Princess and the Pea" feet. I think so. If you cement the C & J down, they won't move around. I'm serious, the made a world of difference in my Indies!