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Acronym.


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16 hours ago, TEKsevenZERO said:

I picked up a pair of ACG woven trousers, sorry can't bring myself to say pants!

I have to say I love them, easily as nice as p15 or p17, they appear to be really well constructed, and as pointed out they do run big, I love the rear facing slanted pocket on the back right, I bet if it had an acrnm label people would be all over them, but they're not which is bloody great as it means I can buy about 5 or 6 pairs vs acrnm prices !

if you get the chance they really are worth an audition, that is if you can get over brand snobbishness, honestly, worth it.

 

I'll get round to sticking some pics on here some time.

cheerio for now!

They're really quite good, I have a pair of them and the techfleece ones; very different to last season's.

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3 hours ago, meccaNIZM said:

love it or not these guys mostly are the "ambassadors" of acronym. they're the reason why people are paying thousands for a foil bag and for jackets like the j47a/j36. sucks for the people who want items cause they actually like them but it is what it is.

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I think you guys underestimate the lasting effect. Look at Supreme...relatively tame prices circa 08 then exploded and hasn't come down since, and with Supreme there's not much inherent value there (e.g. quality).  Acronym does have a lot of explicit value (cut, patterning, articulation, pain-stakingly calculated in its design) plus now the brand recognition.  If Supreme can live on name alone, I don't see how Acronym is going back down.  Oh well, you sleep in the bed you make.

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...exactly, "dont shit where you eat"

1 minute ago, piece keeper said:

I think you guys underestimate the lasting effect. Look at Supreme...relatively tame prices circa 08 then exploded and hasn't come down since, and with Supreme there's not much inherent value there (e.g. quality).  Acronym does have a lot of explicit value (cut, patterning, articulation, pain-stakingly calculated in its design) plus now the brand recognition.  If Supreme can live on name alone, I don't see how Acronym is going back down.  Oh well, you sleep in the bed you make.

 

Edited by TEKsevenZERO
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21 minutes ago, piece keeper said:

I think you guys underestimate the lasting effect. Look at Supreme...relatively tame prices circa 08 then exploded and hasn't come down since, and with Supreme there's not much inherent value there (e.g. quality).  Acronym does have a lot of explicit value (cut, patterning, articulation, pain-stakingly calculated in its design) plus now the brand recognition.  If Supreme can live on name alone, I don't see how Acronym is going back down.  Oh well, you sleep in the bed you make.

One good point a friend made to me as to why ACR may never reach the the exact same levels of hype we've seen Sup reach in the past few years is due to it's high barrier-to-entry for the common streetwear casual. The retail price points are well above-average for ACR products (not to mention the even higher price points for resold ACR), so it's much harder for a mass population of streetwear fanatics to "hop on board" so quickly. Unless you're making good money, you really have to save some dough and invest in an ACR piece.

Sup is much closer to the "fast-fashion" demographic of the common streetwear kid. Unless ACR changes its production and availability strategy and starts churning out large amounts of cheaper quality/cheaper product, I don't think the tables are going to turn anytime soon. 

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Agreed, the only reason it got out of hand in the first place is the fact you could scoop the lf1s and prestos for ~200 and get a quick turn around for at least double. Nobody is buying ANY proper acrnm jacket and flipping for double the same hour. 

 

I don't see a bargain tier of acrnm ever existing, ACG has enough proper acrnm DNA that I think it does a good job as a diffusion line already.  Cutting corners on ACRNM branded products is not on the table for them. 

Edited by jbob24
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3 minutes ago, Questlove said:

One good point a friend made to me as to why ACR may never reach the the exact same levels of hype we've seen Sup reach in the past few years is due to it's high barrier-to-entry for the common streetwear casual. The retail price points are well above-average for ACR products (not to mention the even higher price points for resold ACR), so it's much harder for a mass population of streetwear fanatics to "hop on board" so quickly. Unless you're making good money, you really have to save some dough and invest in an ACR piece.

Sup is much closer to the "fast-fashion" demographic of the common streetwear kid. Unless ACR changes its production and availability strategy and starts churning out large amounts of cheaper quality/cheaper product, I don't think the tables are going to turn anytime soon. 

That makes sense in theory, and I agree...in theory.  But in the real world we've seen that that's just not true, and ACR is not immune.  Watch those Complex Supreme line up videos...teenagers (some 14 year olds!) buy thousands of dollars worth of Supreme in a day.  Tell that same impressionable, chasing-IG-likes kid that ACR is the new hype and I have no doubt he'd divert those thousands he spends on Supreme to ACR.  At that age I couldn't imagine spending that much on anything, but we live in a strange world today.

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1 hour ago, Questlove said:

One good point a friend made to me as to why ACR may never reach the the exact same levels of hype we've seen Sup reach in the past few years is due to it's high barrier-to-entry for the common streetwear casual. The retail price points are well above-average for ACR products (not to mention the even higher price points for resold ACR), so it's much harder for a mass population of streetwear fanatics to "hop on board" so quickly. Unless you're making good money, you really have to save some dough and invest in an ACR piece.

Sup is much closer to the "fast-fashion" demographic of the common streetwear kid. Unless ACR changes its production and availability strategy and starts churning out large amounts of cheaper quality/cheaper product, I don't think the tables are going to turn anytime soon. 

 

1 hour ago, jbob24 said:

Agreed, the only reason it got out of hand in the first place is the fact you could scoop the lf1s and prestos for ~200 and get a quick turn around for at least double. Nobody is buying ANY proper acrnm jacket and flipping for double the same hour. 

I don't see a bargain tier of acrnm ever existing, ACG has enough proper acrnm DNA that I think it does a good job as a diffusion line already.  Cutting corners on ACRNM branded products is not on the table for them. 


I would be inclined to agree with you guys, but if you've been monitoring Grailed (or other sales platforms) at all, you'll see that the demand is very much real despite the price barrier you guys are mentioning. Acronym has amassed a cult status as of late, especially given so much social media exposure, and it clearly shows. A J47A-GT sold in a matter of minutes for $2,500 just the other day; each time an absurd sale like this occurs, it sets a new precedent for the market "value" of the item; which only fuels the hype/resell culture even further. The Supreme example might not be perfect but in my opinion it's highly relevant. 

In spite of any price barrier you guys might think exists, I'm virtually certain that when Acronym restocks 3A bags or any of the hyped goretex jackets (J1A, J28, J36, J47A), they're going to be bought up instantly (and a good portion will go to resellers). The demand is very real, and the reselling / price gauging (like @CARLOOA is inadvertently doing) is just making the situation much worse for all of us that are into Acronym for its intrinsic value rather than the hype. It might be a bubble, but given the short supply, prices are not coming down anytime soon; at least not for the hyped goods. 

Anyway, the trolls are out in full effect now and it seems there's no stopping them :P

Edited by chaosen
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16 minutes ago, piece keeper said:

That makes sense in theory, and I agree...in theory.  But in the real world we've seen that that's just not true, and ACR is not immune.  Watch those Complex Supreme line up videos...teenagers (some 14 year olds!) buy thousands of dollars worth of Supreme in a day.  Tell that same impressionable, chasing-IG-likes kid that ACR is the new hype and I have no doubt he'd divert those thousands he spends on Supreme to ACR.  At that age I couldn't imagine spending that much on anything, but we live in a strange world today.

Yup, in theory, but as you mentioned, there will always be exceptions ^_^

However, those teenagers with thousands of dollars (mommy/daddy money, no doubt) are still just one-in-many. Most of those kids in line fit the "casual streetwear kid" archetype and are trying to buy into the hype, and have much smaller pockets. They're in line because they can't afford resell and can only afford retail Sup products < $150 - $200. Back in the day when it was possible to grab a decent Sup item online within the first 5 minutes of a drop, I remember the higher-priced jackets would sit untouched for a decent amount of time. I attributed that pattern to the above.

In any case, let's say these teenagers shift and decide to divert their thousand-dollar funds to purchasing ACR for the purpose of re-selling. Who's going to be buying them... the common streetwear kid can't afford $3K - $4K ACR resell jackets. Sure, a couple of rich folks will take the bait and buy a few... but the mentality for the general populace who buy into the idea of "streetwear" just can't justify spending that much on one item. The general, smaller populace who buy into the idea of "luxury wear" is a different story (but I'm specifically talking about the streetwear market, which I assume most people associate ACR with).

But yeah, still all speculation. Just my $0.02. We'll see what happens in real life :ph34r:

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1 minute ago, chaosen said:

 


I would be inclined to agree with you guys, but if you've have been monitoring Grailed (or other sales platforms) at all, you'll see that the demand is very much real despite the price barrier you guys are mentioning. Acronym has amassed a cult status as of late, especially given so much social media exposure, and it clearly shows. A J47A-GT sold in a matter of minutes for $2,500 just the other day; each time an absurd sale like this occurs, it sets a new precedent for the market "value" of the item; which only fuels the hype/resell culture even further. The Supreme example might not be perfect but in my opinion it's highly relevant. 

In spite of any price barrier you guys might think exists, I'm virtually certain that when Acronym restocks 3A bags or any of the hyped goretex jackets (J1A, J28, J36, J47A), they're going to be bought up instantly (and a good portion will go to resellers). The demand is very real, and the reselling / price gauging (like @CARLOOA is doing) is just making the situation much worse for all of us that are into Acronym for its intrinsic value rather than the hype. 

In any case, the trolls are out in full effect now and it seems there's no stopping them :P

Yeah... it's just getting worse.

Every time I refresh the Grailed ACR search, there's someone new selling something with an even more absurd price that one-ups the ones before. I feel like I'm witnessing history.

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19 minutes ago, chaosen said:

 


I would be inclined to agree with you guys, but if you've been monitoring Grailed (or other sales platforms) at all, you'll see that the demand is very much real despite the price barrier you guys are mentioning. Acronym has amassed a cult status as of late, especially given so much social media exposure, and it clearly shows. A J47A-GT sold in a matter of minutes for $2,500 just the other day; each time an absurd sale like this occurs, it sets a new precedent for the market "value" of the item; which only fuels the hype/resell culture even further. The Supreme example might not be perfect but in my opinion it's highly relevant. 

In spite of any price barrier you guys might think exists, I'm virtually certain that when Acronym restocks 3A bags or any of the hyped goretex jackets (J1A, J28, J36, J47A), they're going to be bought up instantly (and a good portion will go to resellers). The demand is very real, and the reselling / price gauging (like @CARLOOA is doing) is just making the situation much worse for all of us that are into Acronym for its intrinsic value rather than the hype. It might be a bubble, but given the short supply, prices are not coming down anytime soon; at least not for the hyped goods. 

In any case, the trolls are out in full effect now and it seems there's no stopping them :P

My snowflake sensibilities have been triggered.

Do you mean gouging? Are you suggesting there is exploitative pricing for items of conspicuous consumption? Like ethically dubious pricing strategies for veblen goods? I would ask you to stop and consider the ethics of price gouging in the context of conspicuous consumption: can you unethically price luxury goods? Anyway, I'm sorry if you actually meant "gauging" in the context of me trying to find a price for the 5TS. 

In any case, I'm not really intending to sell my 5TS for anything but that pie in the sky price; it was more meant as meta-humor that was coincidentally timed with that hypebeast article. I love my bag. I mean it'd be nice for some prices to come down so the upper-middle class can get some of this stuff but complaining about a price spike on Acronym is the most first-world problem ever. The price creep is ridiculous, I was trying to highlight that by putting my bag for $4.5k, I do apologize if sarcasm and satire isn't really evident on the internet.

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I don't disagree with what you guys are saying, but I feel that the way Grailed works (or the way people are using it) is a huge part of the problem. Having sold on few things on there, the amount of low balling that goes on is beyond frustrating so I think it forces people to list thing much higher than they are expecting to sell at just to drive away the lowballers. We all know the average transaction is done at a significant discount to the listed price. Ultimately, a bit more transparency on actual transacted prices would be a really nice addition. I know it's harder to do for clothes than for sneakers, but I really like what StockX has done, ultimately it helps goods trade at their fundamental value. 

Edited by Kasper
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9 minutes ago, Kasper said:

I don't disagree with what you guys are saying, but I feel that the way Grailed works (or the way people are using it) is a huge part of the problem. Having sold on few things on there, the amount of low balling that goes on is beyond frustrating so I think it forces people to list thing much higher than they are expecting to sell at just to drive away the lowballers. We all know the average transaction is done at a significant discount to the listed price. Ultimately, a bit more transparency on actual transacted prices would be a really nice addition. I know it's harder to do for clothes than for sneakers, but I really like what StockX has done, ultimately it helps goods trade at their fundamental value. 

I personally don't use it but I do think the buy/ask system for sneakers is a pretty cool gimmick (for lack of a better word)

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38 minutes ago, CARLOOA said:

My snowflake sensibilities have been triggered.

Do you mean gouging? Are you suggesting there is exploitative pricing for items of conspicuous consumption? Like ethically dubious pricing strategies for veblen goods? I would ask you to stop and consider the ethics of price gouging in the context of conspicuous consumption: can you unethically price luxury goods? Anyway, I'm sorry if you actually meant "gauging" in the context of me trying to find a price for the 5TS. 

In any case, I'm not really intending to sell my 5TS for anything but that pie in the sky price; it was more meant as meta-humor that was coincidentally timed with that hypebeast article. I love my bag. I mean it'd be nice for some prices to come down so the upper-middle class can get some of this stuff but complaining about a price spike on Acronym is the most first-world problem ever. The price creep is ridiculous, I was trying to highlight that by putting my bag for $4.5k, I do apologize if sarcasm and satire isn't really evident on the internet.

I'm not complaining about the price spike, I'm just trying to demonstrate that there are lasting effects from posting these kinds of sales listings since it feeds the resell culture that's becoming more pervasive. We've gotten to this point only because people keep posting higher and higher prices. I just figured as a community here, we can try to avoid aggravating this problem since it doesn't help any of us that are actually into the brand for the long run (for the reasons I mentioned in my previous posts). You've been a helpful dude to the community all along, what does the $4.5K post really accomplish? It's potentially more damaging than you might expect, satire or not. I personally have nothing against you selling high, sell it privately or set the price lower and field offers instead? 

Edited by chaosen
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I really like the discussion happening now and plenty of good points are being made. To touch on a point that Questlove made, I've done a fair amount of reselling of mainly Supreme and flipping of paintball guns. For Supreme I do it as a short side hobby and only do online manually. It's not exactly a big time investment. If I grab a hype item  in a demanded size within the first 15secs, I can find a seller within the hour easily. My main criteria is being able to sell something quickly and not for the highest profit. I don't like having products just sitting there and want a quick turnover because again the time investment isn't much when copping online.

I feel like in Acronyms case the supply is not high enough to warrant being able to sell fast in addition to the fact that the price point is much higher which makes it a less attractive arbitrage opportunity.

In Chaosens point, I agree that hyped items will sell instantly. However when was the last time we've seen a  J1A, J28, J36, J47A released on a regular basis? This recent season didn't have a star jacket that was hyped for the resell. The J56 and J57 didn't live up to that and we didn't see any of those resell.

This resell market is interesting but I don't know if it will last because of the high prices of the hyped items with no one to buy them at a quick enough turnover. Not many people have a bank account where they can float $1500 on their credit card and hope to make a profit on it. 

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15 minutes ago, chaosen said:

I'm not complaining about the price spike, I'm just trying to demonstrate that there are lasting effects from posting these kinds of sales listings since it feeds the resell culture that's becoming more pervasive. We've gotten to this point only because people keep posting higher and higher prices. I just figured as a community here, we can try to avoid aggravating this problem since it doesn't help any of us that are actually into the brand for the long run (for the reasons I mentioned in my previous posts). You've been a helpful dude to the community all along, what does the $4.5K post really accomplish? It's potentially more damaging than you might expect, satire or not. I personally have nothing against you selling high, sell it privately or set the price lower and field offers instead? 

I agree with you on the sufutechwear folk policing itself—self regulation is the platonic ideal of a community. We've got post-conventional morality poppin' in Sufu. ;) To be clear, if anyone approached me from Sufu, I'd entertain real amounts of money. I don't want to sell my 5TS, I was satirizing the pricing strategies of current resellers.

Honestly, hypothetically, if someone bought the bag at 4.5k, I'd assume they were  not part of the cognoscenti of considered purchasers to whom I feel a sort of kinship (you guys). By extension, I'd also feel like they had  had more money than sense and I would not feel bad in the slightest for hype-pricing. 

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1 hour ago, Questlove said:

Yup, in theory, but as you mentioned, there will always be exceptions ^_^

However, those teenagers with thousands of dollars (mommy/daddy money, no doubt) are still just one-in-many. Most of those kids in line fit the "casual streetwear kid" archetype and are trying to buy into the hype, and have much smaller pockets. They're in line because they can't afford resell and can only afford retail Sup products < $150 - $200. Back in the day when it was possible to grab a decent Sup item online within the first 5 minutes of a drop, I remember the higher-priced jackets would sit untouched for a decent amount of time. I attributed that pattern to the above.

In any case, let's say these teenagers shift and decide to divert their thousand-dollar funds to purchasing ACR for the purpose of re-selling. Who's going to be buying them... the common streetwear kid can't afford $3K - $4K ACR resell jackets. Sure, a couple of rich folks will take the bait and buy a few... but the mentality for the general populace who buy into the idea of "streetwear" just can't justify spending that much on one item. The general, smaller populace who buy into the idea of "luxury wear" is a different story (but I'm specifically talking about the streetwear market, which I assume most people associate ACR with).

But yeah, still all speculation. Just my $0.02. We'll see what happens in real life :ph34r:

The demand will always follow the supply... and these kids will eventually be adults with jobs and more disposable income. I don't think the bubble will ever "burst"...best case, it doesn't evolve exponentially and just self-corrects for inflation.

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I think the other issue with resellers jumping on to ACR is that they're used to buying sneakers/clothing and being able to mark it up several hundred percent over retail, and sell it. Which is fine if it's something like a hyped supreme shirt, or some jordans, but most of that stuff fits under $500 for retail and resale. With ACR they might be expecting similar margins, and mark things up a ludicrous amount, when that's really not as possible to do when you're trying to sell a $1400 shell for $3k or whatever. The hype will likely even out, and we'll see a little bit higher production numbers from it (hopefully), but so far it just looks like bags, certain shells, and nike collabs have gotten hype, it's not an all-encompassing thing for the brand.

Maybe I'm just a little salty as someone who has only recently been able to save enough to finally get my first ACR piece this upcoming season, but I really hope everything doesn't sell out instantly to bots and resellers.

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I really miss the old tight knit ACR community on this site (before 2015).

Transactions had more of the feeling of "passing on" garments to other enthusiasts rather than trying to profit heavily.

 

Edited by untrue
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1 hour ago, CARLOOA said:

Honestly, hypothetically, if someone bought the bag at 4.5k, I'd assume they were  not part of the cognoscenti of considered purchasers to whom I feel a sort of kinship (you guys).

So, can you sell the pizza bag to me for retail? ha

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3 hours ago, untrue said:

I really miss the old tight knit ACR community on this site (before 2015).

Transactions had more of the feeling of "passing on" garments to other enthusiasts rather than trying to profit heavily.

 

 

 I relate to this. As my bio states- I'm a chef, and have been a member of a forum for the last 5 years that focuses primarily on mid to high end Japanese chef knives. Ive made quite a few friends offline, and a one of which moved into my city a couple months back due to our online banter. More to your point though, the marketplace on said forum is very much in the vein of finding a new home for a cherished item/valuable tool, and less making a buck off another member. Price gougers are summarily 86'd by the community as a whole in most every case. 

Edited by brainerd666
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Ok ok very funny, speaking of CARLOOA's pizza carrier, which one of you was this -- https://www.grailed.com/listings/1755232

edit: ^^^ like the chef said, next to my acronym pieces my Tanaka gyutou is the best, functional and beautiful investments I've made. Take a look at chuboknives.com if your cutlery game is weak ^^^

Edited by capnpyro
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I speculate that while acronym gains more hype people won't be paying resale prices because techwear is usually hard to pull off and correctly. In most cases you for to dive all in to pull off the aesthetic well. It's not like a bogo where it can go with everything. Its also dependent on location. People in hot dry climates have no need for a shell and hopefully will have the presence of mind not to buy resale which will drive pieces closer to retail.

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I think that the high resell prices for ACR give you the safety of trying something out and knowing you can pass on the piece without loosing it's value. You can buy something for 2k, but if you end up not liking it, you know you will get back the same amount, i see it as an investment, and that's the beauty of acronym.

regarding the HB article - looking like an FPS character is the part I hate about techwear

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regarding this previous discussion and looking at the current state of things on grailed, perhaps a more effective method would be to just mass-post items at ridiculous prices to, as a chinese saying goes, fight poison with poison and pricing hype beasts out and hopefully making them lose interest after a while :P

On February 24, 2017 at 0:06 PM, chaosen said:

I know this post was probably made as a joke, but it really is this mindset that's gotten us here in the first place. Sellers keep pushing the envelope with extravagant prices, hoping to one-up the previous highest sales price. With the short supply and growing demand, a hyped item (like a 3A bag) might sell for a ridiculous price and the cycle then repeats and gets worse. It's obvious that this is causing a lot of resellers to flock to the brand, and it's gotten pretty bad already (i.e. the DAF release). 

For those of us who have been long-term fans/customers, I hope that you guys might reconsider publicly posting these kinds of extreme listings. In the short term, you might potentially benefit from high sales prices, but in the long run it'll cause more harm to everyone than good. For example, as prices are driven higher, more resellers (and hypebeasts) will come to the brand; which will make it a lot more difficult to actually buy the items we want at release. I'm also sure we're due for very significant price hikes given the resale market, so we're going to end up paying substantially more (whether at retail or resale) to continue buying the brand. 

It's probably too late to make much of an impact, but it'd be nice if those of us here make an effort to not exacerbate the resell/hype culture we're seeing lately with crazy sales listings ^_^

 

 

Edited by nictan
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