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Freewheelers, Bootleggers Reunion, Bubo, etc.

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1 hour ago, Duke Mantee said:

The FW N-1 is a trimmer cut than the RMC. Neither are accurate in that respect. FW have released about half a dozen version over the last few years and the fabric has been updated each year (and is radically different from the old Bootleggers jacket material), I think RMC introduced a new fabric for their recent special.

Construction-wise there’s probably not enough of a difference to concern yourself with - and those details aren’t for here.

FW jacket (newer versions) is 3 layer; shell, inter liner, lining - I don’t think the RMC is (I owned one about 6-7 years ago but shamefully I never investigated), I’m sure someone can confirm

Thank you, Duke! If I recall correctly, RMC made their khakis one slightly bigger?? Then what about FW?

Frankly, I don't think cotton flannel is a good idea for inter liner in wet weather. My FH flannel took longer to dry than any of my shirt.

Btw, about the lining, FW didn't offer 100% alpaca as RMC, is that true? I wonder if it really make a different about heat retention, durability,...?

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Apparently the RMC khaki version is bigger - I don’t know why, but that’s not the case for FW

The inter liner on the FW jacket isn’t particularly thick and I don’t believe it would take that much longer to dry the coat than the RMC version if they were both soaked - in fact I’d suggest the FW version having a paraffin impregnated shell and that inter liner is going to keep you drier if you are caught in heavy rain. If you are wanting something that dries quickly then you’re looking at the wrong jacket given their comparative weights.

The FW jacket has a 100% alpaca lining - woven from two types, and developed specifically not to pull or pile - it’s the most comfortable alpaca lining I’ve experienced.

I think you might be overthinking things in terms of heat retention and durability. You’re not going to be able to practically measure the difference of either - the Clo value is nearly as subjective as it is empirical; and you’re talking about (hopefully) many years of wear before you might notice if the RMC jacket is more durable than the FW one.

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6 hours ago, Duke Mantee said:

Apparently the RMC khaki version is bigger - I don’t know why, but that’s not the case for FW

The inter liner on the FW jacket isn’t particularly thick and I don’t believe it would take that much longer to dry the coat than the RMC version if they were both soaked - in fact I’d suggest the FW version having a paraffin impregnated shell and that inter liner is going to keep you drier if you are caught in heavy rain. If you are wanting something that dries quickly then you’re looking at the wrong jacket given their comparative weights.

The FW jacket has a 100% alpaca lining - woven from two types, and developed specifically not to pull or pile - it’s the most comfortable alpaca lining I’ve experienced.

I think you might be overthinking things in terms of heat retention and durability. You’re not going to be able to practically measure the difference of either - the Clo value is nearly as subjective as it is empirical; and you’re talking about (hopefully) many years of wear before you might notice if the RMC jacket is more durable than the FW one.

You right! In the end, maybe I'm just overthinkking when buying the most expensive item for my wardrobe.

At first, the term "alpaca blend" (Lot.1831016) on iceclimber.net let me thought it wasn't 100% alpaca.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, tomswallow said:

You right! In the end, maybe I'm just overthinkking when buying the most expensive item for my wardrobe.

At first, the term "alpaca blend" (Lot.1831016) on iceclimber.net let me thought it wasn't 100% alpaca.

If it’s about cash - there are many alternatives that would do a comparatively similar job - RMC = ¥77,000; FW = ¥80,000; Colimbo = ¥62,000; Buzz Rickson’s = ¥62,000; Trophy Clothing = ¥65,000 etc

Edited by Duke Mantee

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1 hour ago, tomswallow said:

You right! In the end, maybe I'm just overthinkking when buying the most expensive item for my wardrobe.

At first, the term "alpaca blend" (Lot.1831016) on iceclimber.net let me thought it wasn't 100% alpaca.

^ I'm not an alpaca expert by any means, but in my efforts to understand various N-1s that I was considering (FW, McCoy's, Buzz), I learned that most fabric sold as 'alpaca' is not made from 100 percent alpaca fibers, oddly enough.  Alpaca is often blended with wool to produce a fabric that many still sell as alpaca.  It can be difficult to know for sure what you're getting and, sad to say, I'm not sure I figured it out with a high level of confidence for any of these jackets.

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Often the item description will use the headline material to boost the appeal but I think ultimately the manufacturer still has to to declare the actual make-up. This might be dependant on local trading standards though. An example is the Iron Heart Alpaca Lined Whipcord N1 Deck Jacket - which turns out to be 80% wool and only 20% alpaca.

Blending usually doesn’t improve the quality but it nearly always makes it cheaper to make.

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Posted (edited)

It would be interesting to (definitively) know what the alpaca percentages are for various jackets, including original/vintage N-1s.  I wouldn't be surprised if a 50/50 alpaca/wool blend is the standard and pretty much ideal.  Having owned a few alpaca-lined jackets (FW B-15 and McCoy's B-10 and N-1), I can tell you that the warmth/weight ratio is extremely high.  My guess is that unless you live in a very cold environment, blending wool with alpaca is a good thing.

For some, alpaca can be a little itchy, which is why I sprung for the McCoy's N-1 SPL with the mouton collar, which is incredibly soft and comfortable and fully reveals my non-military, poser status.

Edited by JohnM

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6 hours ago, Duke Mantee said:

If it’s about cash - there are many alternatives that would do a comparatively similar job - RMC = ¥77,000; FW = ¥80,000; Colimbo = ¥62,000; Buzz Rickson’s = ¥62,000; Trophy Clothing = ¥65,000 etc

Well, not at all. For me, it's more about expectation, which raised up when I paid more.

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10 hours ago, JohnM said:

It would be interesting to (definitively) know what the alpaca percentages are for various jackets, including original/vintage N-1s.  I wouldn't be surprised if a 50/50 alpaca/wool blend is the standard and pretty much ideal.  Having owned a few alpaca-lined jackets (FW B-15 and McCoy's B-10 and N-1), I can tell you that the warmth/weight ratio is extremely high.  My guess is that unless you live in a very cold environment, blending wool with alpaca is a good thing.

For some, alpaca can be a little itchy, which is why I sprung for the McCoy's N-1 SPL with the mouton collar, which is incredibly soft and comfortable and fully reveals my non-military, poser status.

I’ve been told FW now use a combination of 80% alpaca and 20% wool - the cost factor being the main issue, but the comfort factor that you mention is also important. Also the original jackets varied in proportions because importing the fabric was difficult during wartime. Interestingly jungle cloth production was a bigger challenge and 9oz Oxford was proposed as an alternative in a Federal Supply Management hearing.

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A bit more: as you might have thought, clothing made of a variety of heavy fabrics were considered and researched. In some respect, flying suits might best show the development lineage of military cold weather clothing and many items were developed jointly by the Army (Air Force) and Navy - the specification reference would demonstrate that (e.g. the AN-J-3 = Army Navy - Jacket - Type 3). Initial designs were based on garments used by arctic explorers and Eskimos, or other civilian cold weather activities.

Clearly a major factor in the use of cold weather clothing is the insulation qualities. All sorts of ideas were experimented with: electrically heated clothing (unreliable); shearling (effective but heavy), blanket (not sufficiently warm); Nuchwang dog fur mats (smelly and a great home for vermin) and even nutria fur (beloved of Hollywood stars) - this actually was a standard insulation on the B-2 suit which was constructed from a Bedford cord ... a very close relation to how the deck jackets we know are constructed. As you would imagine, fur was very effective but procurement issues limited it’s use so it seems that Alpaca was a material that proved to be thermally efficient (effectively double layer alpaca = shearling), durable and comparatively lightweight and until demand escalated was (fairly) readily available. As ever though, cost was an issue to the government so the majority of alpaca linings used in military jackets were 50/50 alpaca/wool as @JohnM has already suggested.

The need for stable procurement was also why this was a time where the development of man-made fabrics took off and the design of synthetic insulation came to the fore.

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On 2/21/2021 at 5:30 PM, Broark said:

Really into the new khaki Deck Worker jacket, trying to find a 44 that'll ship to the US...
DECKWORKERJACKET_1_f162884c-ef45-424b-81
DECKWORKERJACKET_7_c269de29-df51-4381-ba
DECKWORKERJACKET_2_52a94fd2-c947-466d-bc
DECKWORKERJACKET_10_ee720509-bdfc-41ed-8DECKWORKERJACKET_13_ea3ff24b-333c-422a-9

My oh my. What luck to be lurking in this thread finding this gem. Who makes this and where can it be bought? Can it be bought outside of JP?

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15 hours ago, Facini said:

My oh my. What luck to be lurking in this thread finding this gem. Who makes this and where can it be bought? Can it be bought outside of JP?

It's made by Freewheelers, hence why it's being posted in the Freewheelers thread. :rolleyes:
I've personally given up on finding my size since it's sold out everywhere. I have not seen this for sale anywhere outside of Japan.
Just search for "Freewheelers 2121005" and it'll start popping up at several Japanese retailers.

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@Broark - thank you

3 times I started writing a response, 3 times I was straying into territory that made it sound rude.

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Haha, i really did make that sound like a stupid question, i apologize. I did some google searching under the Freewheelers name, and it yielded no results. I figured that it might be one of the "etc." names that the thread name suggests and felt it easier to ask :rolleyes: Thanks anyway. 

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Corlection (I don't know if it's the Sydney or Melbourne branch) has the blue version in a 40, but that's all

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3 hours ago, Facini said:

Haha, i really did make that sound like a stupid question, i apologize. I did some google searching under the Freewheelers name, and it yielded no results. I figured that it might be one of the "etc." names that the thread name suggests and felt it easier to ask :rolleyes: Thanks anyway. 

I was trying to figure out your angle since you already had all the information - but as @Broark said just search using the catalogue number with Freewheelers. Other catalogue numbers are 2121006, 2121007, 2021008 and 2021009 for all the variations. There’s an earlier version too but it’s a completely different fabric and some details are different.

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As someone who is a big Texas Longhorns fan, I should be the first to buy this tee.
However I have one huge issue with it: why in the hell would you make the color scheme of the shirt with UT's logo the color of their biggest rival OU?!
Duke, please feel free to pass on my scathing review to all those involved at FW and get some explanation into why they picked this color combo. :unsure:
LONGHORN_3_2048x2048.jpg?v=1615615850
LONGHORN_4_2048x2048.jpg?v=1615615850
oklahoma.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

*Slightly sarcastic, but also just interested in why they went this color route...*

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59 minutes ago, Broark said:

As someone who is a big Texas Longhorns fan

I prefer Aberdeen Angus ...

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8 minutes ago, Duke Mantee said:

I prefer Aberdeen Angus ...

Bevo here disagrees with you (taken last summer, also not sure of his actual name).
Ro2vQay.jpg

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I’ve no idea why they chose the colour scheme - especially since the “UT 1971” tee is in blaze orange

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4 minutes ago, Duke Mantee said:

I’ve no idea why they chose the colour scheme - especially since the “UT 1971” tee is in blaze orange

I thought the other one was definitely University of Tennessee orange themed / inspired. Seems accurate.
Just the Longhorn logo combined with red is a big no-no. ;)

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2 minutes ago, LazyS said:

Could it be a copyright reason?

Very possible, although the Tennessee one Duke mentioned looks almost identical to some vintage Tennessee stuff I’ve seen. I’m sure Texas would crack the whip on unlicensed merch. Just pick any color but red/crimson!

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31 minutes ago, Broark said:

I thought the other one was definitely University of Tennessee orange themed / inspired. Seems accurate.
Just the Longhorn logo combined with red is a big no-no. ;)

 

4 minutes ago, LazyS said:

Could it be a copyright reason?

Possibly, but honestly I really doubt it, that longhorn logo is scattered all over the internet in various uses. They probably haven’t even realised choosing red is a rag to another bull ...

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Posted (edited)

Should have done blue for  Tom Landry Middle School

rWzoonaSmbcife6vF0VdLWCW06WkvI4ztXxLnk7k

looks kinda red here

Edited by LazyS

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661zx thanks duke for the heads up the most comfortable pair of jeans I own 

3CCA71FA-F682-41B4-8988-D0CA396CD8B6.jpeg

E6448465-D7CC-46FA-B4B6-5301D3710349.jpeg

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No, I’m sure it was a longhorn Duke.

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