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On 23/01/2018 at 2:24 AM, mlyngard said:

Sorry for the no0b question, it's been a long time since I owned the FH 05BSP.  

Does anyone here have the new TFH D306 slim tapered cut? I own a bunch of continuous taper cuts from Momotaro and Oni which taper all the way down the inseam. But does FH continue their taper the full-length of the 38" inseam, or does it straighten out to a set leg-opening after, say 30-32"? 

I've asked Rivet and Hide to provide a hard in-store measurement at where I'll be hemming, but could use some input here.

Compare the measurements for the Thigh, Knee and Hem...if the hem is narrower than the knee and so on then the taper continues. 

Straight- taper models typically taper from the knee down, fully tapered jeans (slim taper, carrot etc) have some taper from thigh to knee and a greater taper from knee to hem. This is all dependant on the specific cut but that's the general idea.

Edited by UkeNo

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Looking at the measurements for the D306 it looks like TFH have changed how they tag/measure? Usually TFH tag size is the size they are presoak? A 32 will measure 32 then shrink to about 30 if I'm correct? The New models seem to be tagged at the size they will shrink to?

D306 looks spot on measurements for me but am resisting the urge!

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44 minutes ago, Geeman said:

Looking at the measurements for the D306 it looks like TFH have changed how they tag/measure? Usually TFH tag size is the size they are presoak? A 32 will measure 32 then shrink to about 30 if I'm correct? The New models seem to be tagged at the size they will shrink to?

D306 looks spot on measurements for me but am resisting the urge!

My F380 definetely shrank to tag, not from tag.

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Looking at R&Hs measurements the new models are definitely tagged differently 

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On 1/26/2018 at 9:01 AM, Geeman said:

Looking at R&Hs measurements the new models are definitely tagged differently 

Geeman, while I'm tempted to agree with you, I also remember clearly that Flat Head has TWO shrink phases. Initial soak and then a second shrink were standard protocol for FH back in the day and that probably hasn't changed with the Pioneer denim. Tagged waist always shrank to  the measured tag, and then you got used to the stretched out fit and it shrank tight again. Only Studio D'Artisan and sometimes Samurai shrink below measured waist size. Trust in the denim men. Don't downsize and prepare for more shrink sometimes. That part only comes expensively from experience.

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I'd have no intention of sizing down on TFH and would only buy after trying on. At my age sizing down is not a good look :D I trust R&H measurements which prompted the question,

If you look at the 3012 measurements as an example 

https://rivetandhide.com/shop/brands/the-flat-head/the-flat-head-3012-straight-tapered-jean.html?___store=default

Compared to the D306 in the same denim, it suggests they have changed the way they tag

https://rivetandhide.com/shop/brands/the-flat-head/the-flat-head-3012-straight-tapered-jean.html?___store=default

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From my only own experience I agree that 3009 and 3001 shrank from tag size (my size 36 3009 measured 36" when new and shrank to 33.5" or so after a machine wash).
 

It could very well be that the standard series 3001, 3002, 3005, etc. shrink from tag size whereas the models of the Frontier series F310, F380 and so on and also this new D306 models shrink to tag. It's not unheard of that manufacturers use different sizing methods (ask LVC...). Sometimes also to compensate different heights of the rise.

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On 1/26/2018 at 7:00 AM, Geeman said:

Looking at the measurements for the D306 it looks like TFH have changed how they tag/measure? Usually TFH tag size is the size they are presoak? A 32 will measure 32 then shrink to about 30 if I'm correct? The New models seem to be tagged at the size they will shrink to?

D306 looks spot on measurements for me but am resisting the urge!

Confirm that the D306 shrink TO tagged measurement. This was the same for my old BSP as well.

The jeans arrived and a big thank you to Danny at Rivet and Hide for his fantastic customer service and denim wisdom. I know my shiz but it's always nice to have someone on the delivering end to confirm and advise.

Just did some empirical measurements on the D306, since I was seeing varying chart measurements. They are a continuous taper. Tag 33w measured just above hemline flat after one hot soak were 7-1/8 at 36" inseam. They measure just under 7-1/2 at 30" inseam (flat, above hemline). It's not a carrot-taper since the knee is around 8-3/8", but it's a 1950's rockabilly cut with good trim below the knee and a 10" rise after wash.

They held up perfectly under a warm machine wash, with minimal ironing to get rid of the fold-creases. Buttoned up easily including first button. Patch was smooth and only slightly puckered. Hemline gained some nice roping right away. Machine wash took away the last of the inseam shrink (definitely expect at least 2.5" leg/inseam shrink). Waist is already back to 34". Pockets are small and tight - I forgot this about FH. But I LOVE that they double-stitch the pocket openings, which relieves my usual issues of mending down the line...I hope.

All in all, I am already bonded with them. Fit is impressive, Similar to Momotaro's Tight Taper and Oni's Relax Taper, Roomy in the hips, slim at knee and leg. Though I will still never understand why TFH comes to market at $340 - at least $50-100 USD more than other brands, especially when ONI delivers at $230 USD for the same attention to detail. No matter in the long run. The service from Rivet & Hide was exceptional. 

 

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Glad they worked out, measurements sound spot on. 

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6 hours ago, mlyngard said:

Though I will still never understand why TFH comes to market at $340 - at least $50-100 USD more than other brands, especially when ONI delivers at $230 USD for the same attention to detail. No matter in the long run. The service from Rivet & Hide was exceptional. 

 

First of all, thanks for the little review!

Although I’m not the biggest TFH fan I try to “defend” them here. The thing you mentioned like double-stitched front and back pockets but also the deer leather patches, iron buttons, etc. have all impact on the cost. Does Oni still have unbranded or generic buttons and rivets? At least they used to have this. TFH has all branded hardware resulting in higher costs. Furthermore, Kobayashi is known for seeking quality over price and his jeans are sewn at different workshops depending on the sewing steps he thinks the workshop can do best (at least I remember this from some brand spotlights). All this results in a more expensive pair of jeans which I can comprehend and justify. But at most of the time this doesn’t mean the quality is indeed better and the price is “worth” it…this is the decision you have to make by yourself which you already did :D 

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Yeah the multi-stage sewing process makes them more expensive to manufacture than similar jeans. I'm not really sure if this results in objectively higher quality (I feel that my pairs by Samurai, Flat Head, Pure Blue Japan, and 3Sixteen have all been about the same, construction quality-wise) but it does contribute to a pair of jeans that stands out from the average pair.

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To me, the denim is where The Flat Head really stands out, but I'd agree about the sewing/construction.

One of my biggest denim regrets is not sizing correctly on my pair of TFH. I bought a pair of 310s 5 or 6 years ago when I was a denim newbie, still obsessed with sizing down and getting the slimmest leg I could manage. The result is I now have a pair of $340 jeans that live in my closet because I've gained a few pounds over the years and can't comfortably wear them.  I wish I'd saved my $300+ jeans wad until I knew a bit more.

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I love flat head pioneer denim more than Oni's fabric so I definitely wouldn't mind paying extra $100. Plus like what beautiful_freak said, customized buttons and rivets... that's really something else. A perfect fabric, customized buttons and rivets with awesome leather patch and arcs design..... it's just hard to find jeans like this. I used to like super slubby and heavy jeans but I already grown out of that phase. The pioneer denim 14oz weight is just nice and perfect for all weathers and it's texture is pretty balance. It has just the right amount of slub to make pretty tateochi vertical fading, hairy but not too hairy and awesome leg twist! Some brands I noticed have major leg twist on one leg while the other leg twist is pretty minor, but the pioneer fabric twisted equally on both legs. Furthermore I'm a very picky guy when it comes to the faded indigo color of jeans. Among all brands my fav faded color so far can only be found among flat head jeans, pbj 14oz white weft jeans, TCB 60's, 3sixteen 100x...

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I love this forum for the insight and wisdom. Agreed, TFH have been next on my list for a long time, and like a good pair of shoes or a jacket, the price is really not an issue when I can expect many years of subtle wabisabi shazam. I have no idea what's involved with the cloth weaving, but TFH reminded me again why it's so good. Only a day into wearing them and the slub and density hidden in the denim are showing why it's worth the extra. I sized normal/up on these, which was the err on the side of caution rather than vanity decision I've come to accept. I feel your pain, erockisalive, My sizing miscalcs have cost me bundles.

It's funny, but I remember now why I loved my old pair of BSP I had, and only my relationship with Momotaro and ONI has rivalled Flat Head with elegant simplicity where the denim has the one and only final word. The additional details only make them better.

Beautiful Freak - ONI is still using generic hardware, Rivets are Universal, and donut buttons are laurel and star. Sewing is relentlessly good and tight.

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Bored so decided to take pictures of my jeans. Roughly 14 months now. These are my favorite pair. I'm pretty sure my next pair of jeans will be flathead again or maybe RJB.

65454DFA-E61F-46E7-B3B8-334DBC688B7B.jpeg

1F49B2F0-5679-4D16-8B13-E024E7B229F3.jpeg

F6A19CFE-6098-4450-924E-F9E5F03839DF.jpeg

8D8EC4DF-2B37-4617-A92D-6A03609CA72E.jpeg

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On 2/1/2018 at 11:55 PM, 1fookntitefd said:

Bored so decided to take pictures of my jeans. Roughly 14 months now. These are my favorite pair. I'm pretty sure my next pair of jeans will be flathead again or maybe RJB.

65454DFA-E61F-46E7-B3B8-334DBC688B7B.jpeg

1F49B2F0-5679-4D16-8B13-E024E7B229F3.jpeg

F6A19CFE-6098-4450-924E-F9E5F03839DF.jpeg

8D8EC4DF-2B37-4617-A92D-6A03609CA72E.jpeg

These are looking great! I love how much indigo is left in the less-faded areas

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5 hours ago, Mr Crisp said:

Does anyone have experience on the shrink for the 20oz denim used in the 3202? Thanks!

We shrink tested a pair in size 33, shrinkage info is here:

http://www.selfedge.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=2013

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7 minutes ago, Mr Crisp said:

Awesome thanks! How do you guys do your shrink tests? Hot wash? Also, what kind of shrinkage can be expected in the rise, thigh, knee, etc? 

We do a 45 minute hot water soak with agitation and a line/air dry.

We got about .2" to .3" of shrink in all those other areas after the hot soak.

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I'm about to put up a brand new natural cordovan TFH Stockburg wallet on eBay but I have 2 Stockburg certificates of authenticity and they are both different. One came with my Wild Child wallet and one came with the cordovan wallet. Can anybody with the Wild Child wallet tell me which card they have?

2018-02-07_13.55.21.png

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Picked up a pair of 1001's.

Still got 3 inches of shrink in the inseam it seems despite it being the 16oz denim (they were hemmed when new as well, even more surprising to me that I got so much shrink).

To my surprise the front pockets had plenty of room presoak, hopefully that is the case when they dry. Fairly confident I got all of the shrink out so here's to hoping I found a winner with TFH for me.

 

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3 hours ago, SmokeStackLightning said:

Picked up a pair of 1001's.

Still got 3 inches of shrink in the inseam it seems despite it being the 16oz denim (they were hemmed when new as well, even more surprising to me that I got so much shrink).

To my surprise the front pockets had plenty of room presoak, hopefully that is the case when they dry. Fairly confident I got all of the shrink out so here's to hoping I found a winner with TFH for me.

 

Do you have presoak and post soak measurements? I'm interested in getting a pair of these one day...

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Anyone have experience with this Yahoo Auctions seller? https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/seller/amekichi_ishinoshoji

Their ratings are all very good (and they have quite a few of them), but some of their prices just seem absurdly low—they routinely seem to be selling Flat Head flannels for ~¥12000. Are these factory seconds, or something of that sort?

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6 hours ago, 1fookntitefd said:

Do you have presoak and post soak measurements? I'm interested in getting a pair of these one day...

I went through Rivet and Hide, their measurements are dead on. I will post measurements later today after I am home from work of the soaked pair. 

 

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17 hours ago, 1fookntitefd said:

Do you have presoak and post soak measurements? I'm interested in getting a pair of these one day...

They are a size 34, the chart on Rivet and Hide was %100 correct presoak. I had them hemmed to 34 inches before the soak. These measurements are fresh post soak, no wear. 

Waist - 16.25

Front/Back Rise - 10, 13.25

Thigh at crotch - 12

Knee 13 inches down - 8.75

Hem - 8.25

Inseam - 31.5

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