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The Flat Head

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23 hours ago, cmboland said:

Here are my FHxNFxTY jeans i picked up from this forum in late 2014. Ive worn them since DWC2 and about 15 washes. I most likely wont buy another pair of FH jeans because truthfully theyre way out of my pricing bracket. the 20oz modified fit of the 3002 would be my next if i could.

 

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pretty f******king fly bro

maximum potential achieved

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So I went back and read through the beginning of the thread and the 3xxx denim is 14.5 ounces pre soak. With the shrinkage of this denim what does that make it post hot soak? Would it be between 15-15.5 ounces? Sorry if this has been answered before but I haven’t seen anything. 

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To be really sure you would need to measure the actual fabric but roughly (as the Pioneer denim shrinks quite a lot) add around 10%. So more like 15.5-16oz.

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dude i am sooo glad that 2nd on rakuten uses the shittiest camera from 2002 to take all of their pictures hahaha like seriously so refreshing we dont need to see what the texts says or anything hahahahahaha like seriously all the details make it so complex like its just a t shirt like thats why i buy from flat head in the 1st place like just simplify it down its just a t shirt dont need to get all fancy with the details like how all these mid-high end brands like aeropostal and hollister distress all of there stuff like its just a tshirt agin so thankful this is so refreshing, here is a picture from their store page of a preorder of a new tshirt they got comin out I downsized it even more again like I said its just a tshirt dont need to get it all complicated and blow it out of proportion hahaha amigoshdangmotherlovingright?

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Yeah it really blows my mind. Like really not one store owner has anyone in their shop that bought an iPhone in the past... 3, 4 years??

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Speaking of 2nd, how about lack of measurements for FH products and most of Samurai's and their refusal to measure anything if you are between sizes or know that sizes change between two seasons. 

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4 hours ago, Claytonimus said:

dude i am sooo glad that 2nd on rakuten uses the shittiest camera from 2002 to take all of their pictures hahaha like seriously so refreshing we dont need to see what the texts says or anything hahahahahaha like seriously all the details make it so complex like its just a t shirt like thats why i buy from flat head in the 1st place like just simplify it down its just a t shirt dont need to get all fancy with the details like how all these mid-high end brands like aeropostal and hollister distress all of there stuff like its just a tshirt agin so thankful this is so refreshing, here is a picture from their store page of a preorder of a new tshirt they got comin out I downsized it even more again like I said its just a tshirt dont need to get it all complicated and blow it out of proportion hahaha amigoshdangmotherlovingright?

TFHRakuten.png.fb490b096c3baded22684bbaa2bd8c18.png

hi these photos are from fh themselves on the exhibition!

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Yeah, Flat Head takes those photos themselves, and sends them out to dealers.

But 2ND's website is absolute garbage. It's stunning how ugly it is. The only reason they can get away with it is because they're the biggest FH/Samurai dealer and always will be (though they seem to have dropped Redmoon... wonder what the story is with that?) To say nothing of their lack of measurements and many other issues. Their site is pretty much made to be browsed on a Japanese flip phone which, I'm sure, tons of Japanese people are still using. 

Yet every time I go to that hideous site I get kinda nostalgic for late 2011 when I was going crazy and buying FH stuff from them constantly in Japan.

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1 hour ago, edmond said:

hi these photos are from fh themselves on the exhibition!

Even if that's the case the quality of the photos is inexcusable. The only reason I can come up with as to why these photos are so low resolution is that the people at TFH or the people at 2nd don't want the images to be viewed in full quality because the fit, fabric, graphic, or details are susceptible to change. I just can't think of any reason why this would be an accident. Even if the image format was changed 3 times the imaged provided wouldn't look as bad as they do. If I was taking a picture of those shirts or any product and I knew the quality was going to be as bad as it is I would ask my boss "Why don't I just take a picture with my phone?" Any phone released within the last 4 years would take a better quality photo than that.

Even under the presupposition that only 50% of Japanese people could read the text on the t-shirt (and I don't have any idea what that number might actually be), it doesn't make sense to me to expect people to pre-order a product with such a low resolution preview of what the product is probably going to look like. They should provide high quality images of their product so that the customer can see what they're pre-ordering is going to look like and the disclaimer on the product's page stating that it is a pre-order product and the fit, fabric, graphic, or details are susceptible to change should be enough to... well... disclaim that it is a pre-order product and the fit, fabric, graphic, or details are susceptible to change!

Edited by Claytonimus
typo

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22 minutes ago, Cold Summer said:

Yeah, Flat Head takes those photos themselves, and sends them out to dealers.

But 2ND's website is absolute garbage. It's stunning how ugly it is. The only reason they can get away with it is because they're the biggest FH/Samurai dealer and always will be (though they seem to have dropped Redmoon... wonder what the story is with that?) To say nothing of their lack of measurements and many other issues. Their site is pretty much made to be browsed on a Japanese flip phone which, I'm sure, tons of Japanese people are still using. 

Yet every time I go to that hideous site I get kinda nostalgic for late 2011 when I was going crazy and buying FH stuff from them constantly in Japan.

Didn't see your post when typing out my response to edmond. Interesting insight on the flip phone use. Also my hypothetical situation of an employee saying "Why don't I just take a picture with my phone?" doesn't stand up as well to that. Nevertheless yeah the image quality sucks and 2nds website is garbage.

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We've learned throughout the years that there is not a single Japanese store that puts the care into the product pages which stores outside of Japan do.  It's not even close..

The photos and information on Japanese sites are generally just copy/pasted from the brands' line sheets while (some) stores outside of Japan shoot great photos, offer extensive spec lists with info, measurements, etc.. The stores outside of Japan almost have to do this, if you can't beat em on price you beat em every other way.

Edited by kiya

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Quick little update of my f310’s. Sorry for the iPhone photos once again. I’m going to try and get some better photos once I wash these which will probably be within another month or so. 

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To add a little context to the discussion, Japan is very much about retail, and for a lot of shops, online sales are kind of an afterthought. So they don't put a lot of consideration into their online stuff. But since for the vast majority of Japanese people a shop carrying brands like Flat Head is probably located no more than an hour away from where they live, it's much easier to just go to the store and try it on/buy in person. 

For me, if I want to try on a pair of Flat Head jeans, I'd have to go 850+ miles to New York or 700+ to Chicago.

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Ahaha!.....2nd blasts from the past! Their website doesn't seem to have changed over the decade.
 

 

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we are not particular about our photos

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Japanese websites are often 1 generation behind Western websites, even outside of retail. That's been the case for as long as the internet has existed.

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Took a few pictures of my jeans with my new iPhone X. Worn for about 1 year with 2 machine washes and 1 soak:

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These two fabrics are awfully familiar!
The shirt I'm wearing is Stevenson Overall. Other shirt is Flat Head (images found on Yahoo Auctions Japan). Wonder who did it first? I don't actually care when this thing happens.
I think it's actually kind of cool.

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We saw this when John Lofgren came out with the Champion sneaker in white, navy, and camo. Visvim did their own interpretation of the same camo JL did the season after.
Well, how deep do you want to go, really? Those camos are based off of a WWII camo and all most of our favorite jeans are influenced by vintage Levis.
John Lofgren Champions (Photo from Self Edge):

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Visvim Skagway (Photo from END. I think, but I'm not quite sure):

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Just picked up a pair of F310s (on sale for only £95 at rivet and hide!). Can't find much information about pioneers denim, can see it's a bit irregular and love the hairiness but wondered what its weight is after shrinking (14.5oz -> 16oz?) and how tight the weave is. It seems regularly mentioned that the IH 25oz has a very loose weave but dont know how to tell (especially with only one much cheaper pair to compare to)

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Can’t find much info about pioneer???? That’s like the only denim people wear from flat head!

nice pickup though, I’d say that denim is a pretty tight weave. 

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I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure the frontier just means different details like pocket shape etc. if it’s 3xx(x) anything I’m pretty sure it’s still pioneer denim 

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8 hours ago, Claytonimus said:

These two fabrics are awfully familiar!
The shirt I'm wearing is Stevenson Overall. Other shirt is Flat Head (images found on Yahoo Auctions Japan). Wonder who did it first? I don't actually care when this thing happens.
I think it's actually kind of cool.

This is likely better in the Blunders thread, but it's an interesting topic. Was TFH's fabric custom-made for them (they're one of the few brands who actually has custom fabrics, most brands buy what the mills offer because a custom run is a lot of money) and SOC liked it enough to make something similar? If so, is that sort of cribbing/theft/inspiration/homage more or less valid than everyone and their grandmother trying to make a repro of Levi's 501? Is there a moral absolutist in the house who's willing to put their foot down instead of saying, "Well, all interpretations are valid"?   

John made his first run of Champion sneakers in frog camo; the fabric is nothing new, but using it to make sneakers was. Was Visvim just trend-hopping then? Notice how in the past few years everyone made gum sole sneakers (and frog camo everything) and now John has moved on to black soles. Or was BAPE actually responsible for the frog camo revival? 

Something like this was related to me by a store/brand owner; he's been making a 1940's US Mail bag for about 12 years now. A few years ago, at a Japanese trade show, a popular Japanese brand owner, who also makes a US Mail bag, was with his friend who accused store owner A of "copying his design." Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees. This is that muddy line; if no one makes sawtooth shirts, then a brand makes one based on a 1940s Levi's shirt, it's popular, and suddenly every brand is making sawtooths, the idea likely didn't come from a lucky vintage score, but from seeing what the competition was doing. But what if brand B's version is better? Ah, the free market...anyway, I'm rambling. ;)

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I just had to bring back pics or Darbirs f310’s. This is my motivation of the color I want to get my flat heads. I saw these pics on hall or fade and couldn’t stop looking at them. I think he wore these for 3 years with 8 washes and 6 soaks. Don’t know if he’s still around but the fades and hue of blue is amazing. Hope mine can turn out somewhat as epic as these are. 

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Man those look sick. I'd only seen his initial fade pics after about a year of wear, but they look really cool now. Love that powdery blue color, feels like I don't see enough FH stuff that makes it to that stage.

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29 minutes ago, Cold Summer said:

Man those look sick. I'd only seen his initial fade pics after about a year of wear, but they look really cool now. Love that powdery blue color, feels like I don't see enough FH stuff that makes it to that stage.

Im wondering how many total repairs he had done. I just want to get somewhat close to this color. With 8 washes in 3 years thats only 2-3 each year. they still look like they turned out to be in pretty good condition in the end other than the thigh and knee holes, which imo doesn't look bad either since they actually came from being worn that much. The front pockets look like they're in great shape. Ive been working in my f310's everyday that I started this October and they just hit the point where they seem to be evolving everyday. I plan on giving them their first wash at the end of January or beginning of February. 

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The first wash is really the most important, as far as getting really defined creases. Those have the look of a pair that wasn't washed until somewhere in the 6-12 month span, then pretty frequently after that. Once the points of contrast are set, frequent washing just tends to bring out the color, rather than softening the whiskers/honeycombs.

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Nice fades.

I think you'd be able to reach that hue washing/drying more constantly tho.

Big mistake I made was thinking I had to follow the borderline superstitious advice given about washing/drying. 

 

 

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Can’t wait to get a better camera. F310’s have much more contrast in person. Almost at 2 months now on them. 

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