The Flat Head

[misterjuiceman]

they dont stretch they shrink back everytim eyou wash them

 

 

Wearing my grey loopwheeled tee today, not much stretch like demonator said. Although the neck has stretched to a comfortable fit after being a little tight.

 

It's an all FH day: tee and 2111s.

Thanks for the responses. Typically I buy shirts that measure an inch or two less than my actual chest size, and they fit well, but if I go TTS for my shoulders, it'll be about half-an-inch less than my actual chest size before shrinking another half-an-inch in the wash. Otherwise, it'll be a little big in the chest, and too big in the shoulders, so I'm not sure which route to go.

[Howling]

As a one month owner of F310's, I sized 2 up and sure glad I did.  Did back to back hot soaks, they'll give a little back if they sense they need to... now perfect.  Also, make sure to hem after you're hot soak and at least a couple days of wear so you're stacks set in.  You may end up chopping too much off.

[Kyle@TFH]

So, from Thursday to Saturday I'm taking another field trip with the FH staff to see the factory where our denim is woven.  I'll be sure to take pictures, ask questions, and write a full report.  Is there anything you guys would like me to ask about/pay attention to in particular during this visit?

[rosarkar]

Kyle, would it be possible to take a couple pictures that contrast Flat Head and Real Japan Blues fabric? Both look similar on selfedge.com (dark indigo, lol) but I'm sure there has to be a difference in texture close up. 103 BSP's are my next cop and a preview of the zimbabwe cotton weave would be greatly appreciated. Is Gotta Roll fabric different than the other two as well?

 

Also please drop any insider information about special fabrics we might see in the near future (only if you're given permission, don't want you to get fired.   )

[Kyle@TFH]

The Gotta Roll jeans use the same fabric as the Pioneer series.  There is definitely a difference between the Flat Head and RJB fabrics (and the way they fade), but it's kind of difficult for me to articulate; also, there are no RJB jeans for me to handle at the FH office right now. 

 

I'd say that the Zimbabwe cotton used on most RJB jeans gives them a slightly softer/smoother feel compared to the American cotton on the Pioneer denim.  From looking at pictures of faded samples, both types of denim start out very dark, and get high contrast over time.  They both have a vertical fade appearance/texture, but it seems to be more pronounced on Flat Head's jeans in comparison. RJB's denim has a more refined look, which probably suits their appearance in contrast to FH.  I think both types of denim compliment each other very nicely, and you will definitely find differences between the two; but in general, both fabrics have a texture that accentuates vertical fading, and a very dark rope dyeing process, that make them stand out compared to more conventional vintage repro fabrics.  An employee at the FH office wears the Japanese D103 (same cut/fabric, different details), his jeans are fading nicely and have a contrasted but gentler look than FH denim. 

 

I can't talk about new fabrics; in part, because I don't know very much.  We have new types of denim in the works, but I don't know much yet.  What I can tell you is that Flat Head is more interested in exploring variations on their own theme, rather than copying other companies doing black on black/shadow/colored weft denim.  Wild fabrics are cool and certainly have their place, but I guess you could say that when it comes to fabric development FH is generally more conservative.  But with the upcoming 4002 black slim tapered jeans and 5002 Future series slim tapered, we'll be offering modern cuts in some of our more obscure fabrics that haven't gotten as much coverage on SuFu, so look out for those.

[aho]

Kyle, any info on the cotton sourcing and pictures of the dyeing process would be great!

[PeterParker]

From my visit to SENY and talking with Thomas, I was under the impression that RJB has changed its flagship denim significantly.  Formerly it was quite smooth with a soft hand.

 

I was told that the SExFHxRJB collab was the first run of the new flagship denim, which has a much coarser and abrasive feel; since the release of that jean, RJB is now using the same denim for their standard models.  The only new stock that I was able to handle at SENY was the 103BSP, which indeed was made from the same denim.  The 105 and 106BSP were crafted from the former denim.  Based on the difference in texture, I'd expect the new denim to produce higher contrast fades, quicker.

 

However, perhaps I misunderstood and this only applies to the RJB jeans produced for SE.

 

Kyle, can you please clarify this matter?  I'm very curious about the new denim, and would love to see the 105 or 106 cuts done with the same denim.

[itsbenhere]

In my opinion the RJB collab has super smooth denim. I'd be surprised if it was noticeably coarser than the old denim RJB used.

[Kyle@TFH]

PeterParker:  I actually asked Kiya about this a while ago.  RJB used to use a smoother fabric - it was still unsanforized, but had been singed, in order to give a more even overall feel.  The main denim they use now is the same one from the SExFHxRJB collab, which is loomstate like the Flat Head fabrics.  I think that the smoothness of RJB's denim comes from the cotton and weave used, rather than post-weave processing.  This means that you can get the contrast and texture associated with loomstate denim, but in a fabric that feels more comfortable from the start.

 

I think FH's Pioneer denim is actually the softest of the loomstate fabrics I've handled.  Some like the Samurai S710xx denim have great texture and contrast but aren't very comfortable.  The FH denim feels nice from the start and the faded samples at the office are extremely soft in addition to having great contrast in fading, it's just about the ideal balance IMO.  Having a soft pair of jeans is so much more satisfying when you wear them for months to get that feeling, rather than buying a pre-wash pair that requires no time or effort.

[superfuzz]

I have a pair of the SExFHxRJB collab jeans and after the first wash (after about 3 months of daily wear) they felt like butter. Honestly the best feeling pair of jeans I've ever owned. I've thought about picking up a pair of RJB jeans just for the denim.

[jcohen26]

how much can i expect in stretching from some Flat Head 3002's?

 

they're pretty tight up on the waist right now and whole top block, even thighs. I wouldn't say it was a "struggle" to get the trop button buttoned but it wasn't easy.

 

this is post soak as well.

Edited July 22, 2013 by jcohen26

[Sugar Mountain]

Flat Head's Pioneer denim does not stretch very much at all in my experience. Furthermore, unless you've given them a good agitated soak (or a machine wash), there will be additional shrinkage. If I were you, I would cut your losses, sell the pair you have and buy a size up. If you're wearing a pair of jeans for over a year, you want them to fit and not be uncomfortable.

[kiya]

One of the main reasons the SEXFHXRJB15 jean and all of RJB's jeans feel so soft after a few washes is because the fabric is made of a longer staple cotton, it used to be Zimbabwe years ago and last i check it still was with the change in the denim.  The old denim was super smooth, it was good, not amazing.  The fabric on our collabs and all RJB jeans now is amazing, its got a slightly abrasive hand when raw which always results in a really nice fade over time.

[BlackPig]

Hot wash and did the unthinkable - tumble dried it - got about 3% more shrinkage.

 

The lower leg needs to settle a bit because it doesn't look to flattering atm.

 

fit pic.

 

[Kyle@TFH]

That's a really good fit, they'll look great once they've settled in.  I thought my 3009s were pretty boxy looking at first, the Pioneer denim just needs a few weeks of wear before it adjusts to your body.

[BlackPig]

^ Thanks Kyle.  F380 the fit is getting better with wear for me.

[rosarkar]

Thanks everyone for the detailed RJB fabric descriptions. Just saw spythonn's amazing pairs of various flat head denim in the 3sixteen world tour thread.  Can't wait to get my 103BSPs in the future. SExFHxRJB15 2nd on the right.

3sixteen ST-120x / PBJ xx-007 / SExFHxRR10 / Flat Head 2001 / SExFHxRJB15 / SExI14

3sixteen ST-120x / PBJ xx-007 / SExFHxRR10 / Flat Head 2001 / SExFHxRJB15 / SExI14

 

Edited July 23, 2013 by rosarkar

[spython]

^^      

They are coming along great. When my leg of the 3sixteen tour ends I'll get decent progress photos of my fhxrjb's too.

[Kyle@TFH]

That is one incredible-looking collection.  What's your typical wearing/washing habit?

[rosarkar]

thanks for all the rep love but please send it spython's way instead. not sure if rep even means/does anything but he deserves it.

Edited July 23, 2013 by rosarkar

[Broark]

I've been wearing my 2111s despite the heat and they're really opening up and starting to crease well. I threw a zippo in the coin pocket and I'm already seeing some lighter colors coming through. Without a doubt my favorite pair of denim I own.

[superfuzz]

One of the main reasons the SEXFHXRJB15 jean and all of RJB's jeans feel so soft after a few washes is because the fabric is made of a longer staple cotton, it used to be Zimbabwe years ago and last i check it still was with the change in the denim.  The old denim was super smooth, it was good, not amazing.  The fabric on our collabs and all RJB jeans now is amazing, its got a slightly abrasive hand when raw which always results in a really nice fade over time.

 

Hey Kiya, are there any RJB jeans that have a button fly? The zipper is the main thing that has put me off buying a pair once I retire my FHXRJB.

[Kyle@TFH]

Most of RJB's jeans have a button fly, like the D001, D002, D105/105BSP, and others.  But I think most of the slimmer cuts do have zippers.

 

My 4002s have a zipper, I actually really like it. 

[superfuzz]

It seems like most/all of the RJBs that Self Edge carries have zippers.

[jcohen26]

Flat Head's Pioneer denim does not stretch very much at all in my experience. Furthermore, unless you've given them a good agitated soak (or a machine wash), there will be additional shrinkage. If I were you, I would cut your losses, sell the pair you have and buy a size up. If you're wearing a pair of jeans for over a year, you want them to fit and not be uncomfortable.

Lol OKay!! So does anyoen want a pair of Flathead 3002's size 31 for a good price! Just looking to get what i paid

 

I guess i'll throw them on the marketboard here....See what happens. Hit me up if anyone wants them

Edited July 24, 2013 by jcohen26

[spython]

That is one incredible-looking collection.  What's your typical wearing/washing habit?

the imperials have been retired (and the denim shown is actually mine and a friends) - I wash every 5 months or so and my friend doesn't wash beyond the initial soak. the FHxRJBs are coming along great but I'm starting to outgrow them. not sure how much longer I'll fit in the thighs..

[trisjohan]

F310

around 7 months effective wears.

2 soak & 1 wash

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks...

[kiya]

Hey Kiya, are there any RJB jeans that have a button fly? The zipper is the main thing that has put me off buying a pair once I retire my FHXRJB.

 

Yup, these have a button fly:

http://www.selfedge.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=394

[superfuzz]

Thanks Kiya, but I think my chicken legs would be swallowed in those!

[tonoak]

proxfh05 2 months