Jeans of the Old West: A History

[Joseph Hill]

We're all out in our backyards diggin' for denim! (and champin' at the bit for vol. 2) And I went to the Montgomery Lodge to redeem my vouchers and get my rolls of nickles, but they said that offer had expired. Some time ago...

[Sansome1877]

We're all out in our backyards diggin' for denim! (and champin' at the bit for vol. 2) And I went to the Montgomery Lodge to redeem my vouchers and get my rolls of nickles, but they said that offer had expired. Some time ago...

I think you might have to borrow rnr's time machine and go back 40 years to get your rolls of nickels. We are making steady progress on our next book, we are hoping to have the book available before Christmas. Good luck on your backyard dig, here is something a few people might like, I found this a few days ago.

.

[Guest denimefreak21oz]

yeah good..day for all off u..denim miners.looking forward to join the club.

[Guest denimefreak21oz]

I think you might have to borrow rnr's time machine and go back 40 years to get your rolls of nickels. We are making steady progress on our next book, we are hoping to have the book available before Christmas. Good luck on your backyard dig, here is something a few people might like, I found this a few days ago.

.

nice find..is that painted on leather or woods...ur book p.tag plz

[bluegoldblues]

Hey Michael What sort of content/stuff will be featured in the next book? any revealing?

European denim??

[Sansome1877]

^Paint on wood, It's a box end, often used for wedges.

[Sansome1877]

Hey Michael What sort of content/stuff will be featured in the next book? any revealing?

European denim??

The book is going to cover many clothing manufacturers from the 1850's to the 1930's, East and West coast. A very large Levi chapter filled with all sorts of new information, all of the research so far points to XX starting in 1876, just like the 1901 catalog says ( XX 25 years the standard) I am interested in European denim, I know Neustadter brothers and Heynemann had offices in England... Do you know about 1800's denim in Europe?

[ringring]

The book is going to cover many clothing manufacturers from the 1850's to the 1930's, East and West coast. A very large Levi chapter filled with all sorts of new information, all of the research so far points to XX starting in 1876, just like the 1901 catalog says ( XX 25 years the standard) I am interested in European denim, I know Neustadter brothers and Heynemann had offices in England... Do you know about 1800's denim in Europe?

Really looking forward to the new book sir.

There's been some speculation about English denim on here..

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=143701&page=5

.

[eltopo]

Few snaps of my Neustadter ducks. They are starting to get permanent dirt whiskers and a wallet line. Time for a wash.

ww.banditphotographer.com

[bluegoldblues]

There's been some speculation about English denim on here..

Am quite interested in this, so I decided to look through a Daily Telegraph and old News of the World newspaper I have from 1914.

This was all I could find haha

[Sansome1877]

Really looking forward to the new book sir.

There's been some speculation about English denim on here..

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=143701&page=5

.

Thanks ringring, lots of research to do. Do you have any idea about 1800's English newspapers online? I was wondering If I will have to go the Libraries in England, to do my research? Thanks bluegold.

[ringring]

Thanks ringring, lots of research to do. Do you have any idea about 1800's English newspapers online? I was wondering If I will have to go the Libraries in England, to do my research? Thanks bluegold.

I'm sorry I don't have any links to online English newspapers from the 1800's.

I think you're doing groundbreaking work, which will influence denim fans for generations.

I'll repeat the quote from the wonderful Paul Trynka's book,

"Quite possibly the missing link came from the textile mills in Lancashire, England, which by 1800 were producing a fabric named denim, made out of cotton and probably designed to echo the look of French wool/silk twills."

Paul was onto something.

Please follow your instinct across the pond to England. You could start at the British Library, then the British Museum and the Victoria & Albert Museum before heading north to mill country.

Before you go, it may be worth looking in the National Museum of American History in Washington, for the 1810 18th edition of the The Repository of Arts, Literature, Commerce, Manufactures, Fashions & Politics magazine.

And John Harper's The Weavers Draft Book of 1792, from the American Textile History Museum in Lowell (?)

Good luck!

[Maynard Friedman]

Thanks ringring, lots of research to do. Do you have any idea about 1800's English newspapers online? I was wondering If I will have to go the Libraries in England, to do my research? Thanks bluegold.

You could also contact existing UK newspapers directly that were in circulation at the time, e.g. the Times or The Telegraph and ask if they have online archives you could have access to. This may be available for a subscription.

Worth a shot?

[bluegoldblues]

I know for a fact that the the big university libraries in london have centuries of newspapers on file.

The charity shop I got mine in central london sells them for 50 pence each and there were a few 1800 ones from memory.

Alternatively, a lady at spitalfields antique market sells even older newspapers, at a price though.

What was the name of this factory in lancashire? Paul?

Even from a 'denim hunting' point of view, I very much doubt one could find anything of historical/financial value that you could identify as the real deal.

I'm happy to have a look next time im University of London library studying...

[bluegoldblues]

Another thing..I doubt 'workwear' would have been advertised in the national newspapers back then, you forget how bad the class system was in the victorian England

[entertainment!]

My wife did a fair amount of research on 19th century British history and found most of the newspapers she needed at the New York Public Library. She did have to go to London too, though.

[Sansome1877]

ringring.. maynard..bluegold..and entertainment- thanks for the leeds and the kind words! I would like to know where the tin mines were in the U.K? It's my guess right now, that the Neustadter Brothers would have marketed clothing to the miners? I would like to look in a small newspaper that was around the tin mines (if one existed?) I photographed one of Brit Eaton's, turn of the century, Neustadter Brother's shirts with a made in England label. BTW Neustadter Brothers had an office in New Zealand and Yokohama Japan in the 1890's. Guys thanks again for all of your help:)

Eltopo, your pants are looking good.

[Maynard Friedman]

ringring.. maynard..bluegold..and entertainment- thanks for the leeds and the kind words! I would like to know where the tin mines were in the U.K? It's my guess right now, that the Neustadter Brothers would have marketed clothing to the miners? I would like to look in a small newspaper that was around the tin mines (if one existed?) I photographed one of Brit Eaton's, turn of the century, Neustadter Brother's shirts with a made in England label. BTW Neustadter Brothers had an office in New Zealand and Yokohama Japan in the 1890's. Guys thanks again for all of your help:)

Eltopo, your pants are looking good.

The tin mines were primarily in Cornwall but possibly elsewhere too.

[Sansome1877]

The tin mines were primarily in Cornwall but possibly elsewhere too.

Would Cornwall have any small newspapers back in the 1800's?

[Maynard Friedman]

Would Cornwall have any small newspapers back in the 1800's?

Possibly but it was and still is a very rural county in the SW of England with no major cities. I think Google may be your best starting point but the county council will have it's own website so I suggest you contact them. They can probably provide some local history. Hope that's of use.

[ringring]

ringring.. maynard..bluegold..and entertainment- thanks for the leeds and the kind words! I would like to know where the tin mines were in the U.K? It's my guess right now, that the Neustadter Brothers would have marketed clothing to the miners? I would like to look in a small newspaper that was around the tin mines (if one existed?) I photographed one of Brit Eaton's, turn of the century, Neustadter Brother's shirts with a made in England label. BTW Neustadter Brothers had an office in New Zealand and Yokohama Japan in the 1890's. Guys thanks again for all of your help:)

Eltopo, your pants are looking good.

Tin mines were dotted around Devon and Cornwall in England. There are plans to re-open the South Crofty mine in Cornwall.

For sure there would have been Devon and Cornish newspapers in the 1800's.

The Exeter Flying Post and Cornish Advertiser are listed here:

http://www.jisc.ac.uk/media/documents/programmes/digitisation/jisc_19cnewspaper_map_04.pdf

.

[Guest rusholmeruffian]

http://www.cornish-mining.org.uk/

Exeter uni will have a wealth of research I would imagine.

[killer b]

hi, new here...

there will have been small newspapers in cornwall in the 1800s, but no chance of any of them having a significant digital archive. same everywhere in the country tbh.

the only papers with any serious digital archives available are the national broadsheets (the times, the telegraph & the guardian, although the mail & express may have something), and certainly when i was studying a few years ago it was text only, and on disk - so no photos, and no adverts. I can't see this changing much, as all the papers are primarily motivated by profit and there hasn't been much of that around in the newspaper world lately... I would imagine most universities & big libraries would have access to these, although how much use they'd be, I don't know.

museum and research-wise, the V&A is definitely a good place to start, but the local museums also do a lot of research - I live in Preston, which was build on cotton like much of the north-west of england (in fact, the house i live in was built as housing for the cotton industry, and the biggest mill in town stood just behind my house). Richard Arkwright invented the water frame in preston, and cotton was produced in quantity since the 1770s. the local cotton business, while now defunct, is something the historians take very seriously round here, as almost all of the town's history for the past 300 years is directly built on it... so there is a significant amount of published work available locally, and the local museum is constantly having new exhibitions about the victorian cotton trade.

I was having a trawl around it's website last night, and found this for example - a proect looking at 1860s indian fabric, including a 600 piece sample book). I'm fairly sure if there was any way of linking cotton manufacture in the north-west with the development of such an iconic material as denim, the historians of preston would grasp it with both hands... i reckon it might be worthwhile getting in touch with the harris museum in preston, as they have the biggest local interest in clothes & cloth - probably the person mentioned in the link above will be able to point you in the direction of who to talk to.

sorry if that's a bit rambling... great thread anyway. I keep finding myself wasting hours looking through the pics & stories.

[killer b]

oh, and one thing you might find interesting for late victorian workwear (fashion in general for that matter) is the films of mitchell & kenyon - these were found in an attic in Blackburn a few years ago - hundreds of films of everyday streetscenes, made around the turn of the 19th/20th century. they mostly focus on the northwest, and there's plenty of mill footage - check out this one from oldham in 1901 -

- plenty more on youtube too...

[ringring]

Welcome killer b - and great first post.

Sansome - Here's a link to the British Library's collection of newspapers.

http://newspapers.bl.uk/blcs/

[killer b]

cheers - although you seem to have proved me at least a bit wrong with that link...

btw, at least until the 1980s (when i think british denim production ceased), a substantial percentage of british weaved denim was made in preston. not sure when they started making it though...

[Guest rusholmeruffian]

This lot still do British denim. They are also very friendly and may have some helpful info. re. British workwear.

http://www.old-town.co.uk/

[killer b]

perhaps, but they do say it's from the last batch of british denim made in lancashire 'several years ago' - there may be some small cottage producers elsewhere, i guess. nice togs, mind.

[Maynard Friedman]

This lot still do British denim. They are also very friendly and may have some helpful info. re. British workwear.

http://www.old-town.co.uk/

That looks like something from The Chap

http://www.thechap.net/

[Guest rusholmeruffian]

haha , it does a bit.

That newspaper pdf they produce is seriously good.