Blend

This is the thread where I come to laugh and cry at human behaviour. People get bent over and burned and still wanna justify it. It's both sad and hilarious.

5 hours ago, Foxy2 said:

I'm pretty sure PBJ consider HK covered with through Benny/Take5 - at least in the past he was very keen on making sure that he would represent certain brands exclusively...
Take5's price in the past used to sit slightly above the domestic Japan price, reflecting his shipping and handling cost as well as exchange rate fluctuations and his costs - this and a few other points made Take5 my go-to address when living in GZ.

Yeah, and as mentioned, some customers are happy to use places like Take5 and pay a bit more (commesurate with those advantages). On the downside, Take5 only carry a small number of models (currently 6 online) with nowhere near the variety and choices one could get through OD (closer to 30 different models along with shirts, jackets, accessories, etc). Unfortunately, even Take5 will have to raise their prices to match the new IPP. While PBJ may hope business out this way will all channel through Take5 with the change, it's highly unlikely. I think customers are more likely to just look to other brand choices in the market.

5 hours ago, ryan123 said:

I think the main problem here is if people can buy from retailers in Japan for 30-40% cheaper than the local resellers outside of Japan, then eventually no resellers outside of Japan will carry PBJ. For example, I see Take5 in Hong Kong carries some PBJs and they are more expensive than buying from Denimio and OD. So I dont really see why people in Hong Kong will buy from Take5. I am guessing PBJ probably did the calculations on what is gonna cost them if they loose all the wholesalers outside of Japan.

Yeah, I get that. As Cucoo mentioned some customers don't mind paying a bit more for the convenience of a bricks and mortar experience and being able to get the product immediately. These are the ways a reseller can add value and justify an extra cost. Again, the issue I have is that the reseller price everywhere has been dictated to by US retailers with their artificially inflated prices to cover the various taxes/duties/levies/whatevers that their country chooses to impose. I get the dollars and sense of the decision, I just find it grossly distasteful and this type of questioning and debate is good and healthy.

7 hours ago, Foxy2 said:

Hi there, too.
I'm not sure that I can follow you're argument - the fact that there are differences in cost, taxation and customs between a given home country and Hong Kong or Japan ,respectively, does not entitle one to anything.
certainly, one would want to take advantage of these situations and, hopefullyy, one would want to do this in accordance with one's home country's laws and regulations...

I don't know which country you live in, but ,based on Japan's protective scheme (when it comes to imports) I assume your home country has most likely a restrictive import scheme very similar to the US or EU.

one can certainly travel to Japan and/or countries that have very easy import schemes (Hong Kong, Macau and, probably, Singapore) and purchase goods while in-country. maybe there is even a VAT re-fund scheme.
However, in the end one can onlyhope for staying within the boundaries of the official regulations when passing through the customs section upon re-entering your home country - or, simply put, hope that one's home country customs officers won't check you...
also, one can order from oversea shops and hope that they ship to oversea customers at domestic prices - still, in the end, one is subject to the regulations of one's home country once the pacels pass through that customs section.

over the past 10 years we have seen a few things happen:
- the internet makingmaking oversea goods and price visible
- payment systems and internet trading platforms enabling overseas transactions at a faster rate and higher ease (enabling one to forego proxies and related costs)
- customs offices more strongly applying and enforcing existing custom regulations on oversea parcels containing private purchases
- cutomers asking overseas shops to falsify the value of said parcels
- custom officers demaning actual invoices to determine the custom costs and checking the internet for actual prices
- certain oversea shops and brand stores refusing to falsify parcel values or refusing to handle oversea customers in general

taking Warehouse and and FullCount as examples:
- Warehouse webstore will handle oversea shipments, but will not falsify pacel values
- FullCount webstore will not handle shipments outside of Japan
it appears that in both cases the respective webstore is fully or partially owned by the brand and that these policies reflect each brand's take on the oversea markets and the interest of their oversea trading partners.
for sure, PBJ's answer to the problem is to allow their oversea trading partners to recapture their costs while trying to regulate those domestic retailers that cater to an oversea market on the basis that their customers' home country custom's office may or may not exercise custom dusties.

I simply believe that existing custom cost avoidance schemes do not entitle anybody to anything and that it is in PBJ's own best interest to control and level the "oversea playing field" while building and developing oversea trading partners.

(Sure, there is the odd chance that one lives in a country without acces to an official trading partner - but I, personally, respect PJB's business decission to focus on long-term solutions aiming to provide authentic products, stable supply, reliable business partners and quality service in the respective markets.certainly, their interest in the oversea market or the interest of their overseas trading partners has outweighted the interest in oversea business conducted by OD and Denimio. if one is to consider PBJ's approach counter-prodcutive, short-sighted, stupid or greedy one could be better off not buying their products...)

i hope this is not too lenghty or comes across as patronizing...
 

Hi Foxy. Thanks for the lengthy response and no issues here with its tone. We may be just coming from different perspectives.

I acknowledge your comments and opinions about the question of "customs cost avoidance". And this seems to be one of the thrusts as to why you tend to have no issue with the PBJ price rise. I also acknowledge there are a broader range of points you have raised, but most of them are perhaps less pertinent to my point.

"Customs cost avoidance" is a non-issue for me as I live in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is a free port and does not levy any duty on imports. There is no sales tax or any other import charges. So, essentially, I could (and arguably should be able to) buy directly from companies in japan who are willing to sell internationally at Japanese retail prices (or near to, taking into account the shipping fees).

My issue as I see it, is that the "international pricing policy" means a significant increase (30-40%+) to the price I have to pay. Furthermore, that increased price is not due to increased costs of materials or production, etc, but simply due to placating the US retailers, who do have to deal with all those extra costs outlined above. If my understanding is correct, the prices for all countries outside of Japan is being forced to match the inflated prices charged by US retailers. So, instead of paying the cost price, plus mark-up for reasonable profit, and the shipping cost to import here to Hong Kong, the new PBJ product cost for me includes all those extra charges that are part of importing for US businesses and nothing to do with importing here to Hong Kong. 

I'm certainly no expert in these areas and been trying to understand why it is so many in the US are OK with it (retailers aside, as I understand their interest). I do know that the effect of this policy has a significant impact on my situation. Nevertheless, as you mentioned, there are enough quality options out there these days to simply choose another brand. And I'm happy to do so, and will do so. 

8 hours ago, ShootThePier said:

I could very well be wrong too.

I'm not against price increases, but I am against increases that are not due to increased cost to produce or supply and demand issues.

Don't forget this price increase does nothing to add value for the end user. This price increase is for BIG to have price protection, to gain more of an existing market, by taking away sales from OD and Denimio. PBJ is not getting the extra $. OD and Denimio are not paying extra $. Will BIG sell as much more product as OD and Denimio MAY lose? Tough to guesstimate that one. Who will lose? Customers lose $, PBJ may lose sales. Maybe decreased volume means somebody loses a job. Nobody wins.

What happens when cost to produce does increase? It will be that much more difficult to pass on the legitimate increase.

What did OD put in their letter? 30-40% increase? That is a tough pill to swallow that any conscientious consumer would have to stop and question. BIG and PBJ wanted consumers to look at BIG as a retailer due to price. Might those same people looking to BIG based upon price, now also consider other brands based upon price? It's possible. BIG and PBJ have already used price as a motivator. It has the potential to backfire.

Again, I very well could be wrong.

Agree. And especially when you are looking at 30-40% with zero added value

5 hours ago, Foxy2 said:

I understand that people can be happy with the fact that in in some countries oversea purchases are not scanned on a regular basis by the respecive customs agencies (and that existing laws and regulations are not enforced, or fly under the radar).

For brands with own distribution and/or no intentention to expand into oversea markets that can be OK, too.

Brands that do have oversea distribution partners, intend to develop these, or want to control their image will realize that the above mentioned situation is certainly unsustainable and counter-productive in the mid- to long-term. PBJ has to act in the interest of their partners.

One way is to prohibit oversea sales or, at least to discourage them. Setting an international sales price is actually quite "smart" or "educational" in some regards: the (domestic) retailers are still allowed to ship and any potential custom charges would be on top of the international price...

I'm pretty sure that PBJ's interest is not to make extra money but to discourage by-passing of existing local distributers which carry the full cost of regular/legal importation.

The real problem are the differences in cost and taxation along with the protective measures that exist between different countries - and, I am not saying that free, un-restricted trade is the only solution. But, I certainly believe that PBJ has every right to act in their partner's interest.

Hi. But aren't you assuming that other countries have the same import/customs/whatever-else-laws as the States? What about countries, like Hong Kong, where there are no such laws and regulations, thus no such charges? I now have to pay an extra 30-40% for my purchase for no other reason than to appease US retailers operating under US laws, none of which are my concern (or at least, shouldn't be).

What sites are you going to that don't provide measurements? I can only think of a couple places that I buy stuff that don't.

Thanks Pudaspriest. Recently, it was with Feltraiger and Levi's. I also have the same lack of sizing issue on the Cultizm page (and model clarification for that matter).

Where are you based, we could point you in the direction of reputable sites with decent measurement charts? Oh and what denim you looking for?

Thanks Geeman. I know there are plenty of good online stores and brands out there that are more than helpful. I just wish they were all that way. I'm still finding my own style and size. I've been wearing my first raw selvedge, (Edwin 55 11.5oz white selvedge unwashed) for the past 5 months. I live in Hong Kong so wanted a lighter weight to get through the summer humidity over here as my first raw experience.

I have traditionally gone for a regular fit with more room in the seat, but still some taper in the leg (ed-55 fit this bill well). Though, now I'm starting to look more towards the slim tapers. I have bought quite a number of different jeans in the past 6 months to get a gauge on sizing and fit. So, now when I see measurements I have a better idea of how they will sit on me (well, at least before they stretch out).

Has anybody had any experience with Feltraiger jeans? Opinions? Feedback?

http://www.feltraiger.com/

How about Dumluck?

http://www.dumluck.nl

Was just curious. I quite like digging around and finding some of those smaller, lesser known brands.

OK, a recent convert to raw selvedge and been watching quietly in the background here of recent.

I have a question... Why do so many online sites not provide measurements for their jeans? It is incredibly frustrating and has stopped me numerous times from making purchases. Is it a clique snobby thing where people in the know should just know how different denims fit? Doesn't make much sense then, when dealing with new brands trying to break on the scene... Anyway, needed to vent as it's been driving me farking nutz.