FeloniousMonk

I know your pain, Articulate. Flat Head 3012 seem to have the largest thigh and hips out of all the newer "straight tapered" or "lifter" fits, so you might find the other company's models to be a bit tight in those areas. But these models will all have more room up top than a slim jean (not as much as a straight cut), and a pretty strong taper below the knee:

Iron Heart 633s

Momotaro Natural Tapered

Oni 527 fit

Stevenson 714 Valencia

 

Some people also swear by Japan Blue and Left Field cuts in this category, but I haven't handled them in person.

 

If you're not all that worried about having a strong taper, you might have the best luck with 60s cuts. I find them super comfortable because of the room in the top block, while the slight taper seems to give them a cleaner look than straight cuts. There's an entire thread on 60s repros elsewhere, but a few more mainstream models that stick out:

Evisu #2000

Flat Head 3009

Full Count 1101

(and a plug for Ooe Yofukuten OA02 cut as well)

^ Maybe you know already but in the context of vintage denim, NOS stands for New Old Stock.

 

... Well I know now! Shit, thanks. Back to digging through internet searches for papers on indigo molecule derivatives.

Well they call it the "NOS finish", so perhaps it is rapidly oxidized using nitrous oxide (N₂O, sometimes called NOS) at a somewhat high temperature? My main guess would be that some of the hydrogens on the edges of the molecule would be replaced with OH groups, potentially shifting the color a bit.

 

Really a shot in the dark here though, my chemistry knowledge is atrocious.

Hogg and CMBO: The 0605 cut actually works well as a high-rise slim jean with room for bigger butt and thighs, though most people will want to size down to account for that bigger waist (I wear a 30 in these jeans, while my usual tag size is 31 and true waist is 31-32). There's enough room in the hips and upper thigh that the waist does not seem too large in proportion. The rise is high, but not especially so. It definitely still feels like a modern pair of jeans and not some disco throwback.

 

Now the set of measurements I really don't get is the new "high tapered" fit from Japan Blue. Blue Owl says the waist measures 33.75" on a tag size 31, in a sanforized denim. Yet the thighs and knee look pretty normal for a tag size 31, so it's not as if you can just aggressively size down. Has anyone tried this fit on? Does it really feel like the waist is vastly oversized?

That must've been some fight the first couple weeks of wearing those jeans! Glad to hear they're gonna soften up in the next month or so of wear. Anyway, the pair looks really good. Motivated me to break mine out and start wearing them again, so hopefully they'll have some nice fades by spring.

In that thread, the OP says he got a fair bit of stretch out of the Momotaros, but that is definitely contrary to my experience. The 18 oz denim has not given an inch so far.

Mine are still a few months of wear away from any real visible fades. The only faded pair of the 18 oz denim is this pair of tight tapered Momotaros I've seen on reddit.

^ Yeah, I've got that pair, wore them about 5 months alternating with my other heavyweight jeans. It's just getting cold enough to move them back into my rotation.

 

Really nice deep indigo, does that Momotaro fading to electric blue. The all-over fades will take a while longer to show, but there's already some decent contrast forming on the whiskers and little peeks of light blue in the combs. Fabric feels super smooth and regular. There's a bit of slub that provides a grainier fade to the denim, but you don't notice it when wearing them. The cotton never really softened up even with 2-3 months of pretty hard wear and a couple washes. They definitely take a lot of beating to wear in.

 

Also, just a note on the fit: it's still pretty trim in the thigh for me. The natural tapered leans closer to a slim tapered cut than, say, a 60s cut with more below-knee taper.

^ Oh man, you're going to like those. My pair has been tucked away since April because they're just too damn heavy for the summer, but it's a great denim. Fades pretty quickly for natural indigo, but I suspect a lot of that is due to the insane loom chatter and heavy ridges it tends to produce.

 

If NYC weather can finally decide to embrace fall and dip below 70 degrees, I'm looking forward to breaking them out again.

Still in. Tonal diamonds would be pretty fantastic, as it sounds like a compromise people can live with. I want to wear the bejeezus out of these jeans anyway, so non-fading tonal will show up just fine in the end.

Flat Head flannels are the bee's knees, the cat's meow, and the unicorn's merkin all rolled into one. Practically lived in this thing last winter/spring, and I'm counting down the days until I can bust it out again:

 

The western fit is great, it's pretty much the only company's flannels that don't need tailoring for me. The upper arm probably is a little big, but I'm ok with that as part of the style. It seems fitting, especially in the heavyweight winter flannel which is basically a jacket anyway.

 

Curious what you don't like about the yoke, as I also think it's nicely proportioned and a little distinctive with the peak in the back without being over-the-top WESTERN.

Mighty high praise! How much taper does the UES flannel have? Is it similar to the Flat Head western flannels, or is it a straighter cut down from the chest?

So much for the idea that LHT can't get high-contrast fades.

Still in. The arcs are ok whichever way it goes (diamonds diamonds diamonds), and the rest sounds great.

 

Are they also doing lined back pockets, or is that an old detail? Saw it on the Self Edge models and was curious.

Sounds good. Only thing I would say is that I'd prefer super durable pocket bags to a material with better aesthetics. If the houndstooth material they use is tough, then great.

Speaking as someone who has a couple Gustin jeans, they use some oddball fabrics that would be too gimmicky for the top Japanese companies but are fun once-in-a-while pairs (for me, the grey silks and oxbloods). Plus their model makes it cheap enough to own jeans that you may only wear a few times a month.

 

Though for standard every-day indigo, definitely agree.

^ That's my impression. Just speaking for myself, I'm quite flexible on details so long as it's a denim I want and a cut I trust. Getting a pair of RJBs in a 3009 cut would be pretty much ideal, since I've always liked the wilder RJB details (patch, jolly roger, etc.) and have heard great things about the denim but their cuts are either too slim or too boxy.

 

If only 50 people were signaling interest between the better-known and more widely-loved 3005 and 3009 cuts, then 100 pairs of a single new fit could be a big hill to climb.

tigerstrom: I was going off the measurements on Self Edge's website. They're different model names than the domestic jeans, but I believe the cuts are the same as the similarly-numbered Japanese models.

I've added far too many jeans to my collection, far too quickly. Need to break in more of these...

 

Ande Whall Mustang SR11

Ande Whall Mustang Black

Flat Head SE05BSP (broke them in, but they were ultimately just too slim to be comfortable)

Flat Head 3012 (fit beautifully)

Gustin Grey Silk 2

Gustin Oxblood 2

Momotaro 0605-18

OA02XX-0714

Oni 546 (22oz natural indigo)

Roy Big Bro 2

 

Retired:

Kasil Workshop x Ernest Alexander (first pair of jeans I wore since middle school)

Jean Shop Heavyweight Rocker (weren't a great fit, but my first taste of Japanese denim)

I thought part of the hunger for this collaboration was that the cuts on RJB tend to be too low-rise for most people's tastes or otherwise just not quite right, whereas Flat Head has a number of cuts that people find pretty spot-on. If we're back to just RJB cuts with potentially some modifications, then that seems like a pretty big gamble on the changes being made correctly and everyone still getting the right size in the end.

Yeah, there used to be very extensive custom options including dozens of different denims, but it seems that ended a couple years ago. Now pretty much everything they make is in the OA denim, or other materials like the duck, etc.

 

If you tend to wear your jeans a bit slimmer, they do appear have a size 31 available in the OA02XX-0714.

http://ooeyofukuten.ocnk.net/product/3

 

I got those jeans in size 33 when I typically wear a 31 waist, and I definitely could have gone down to the 32s. My current sizing still has a good sillhouette, not really baggy, but the fabric has a good amount of stretch to it to make the waist work and there's plenty of room in the top block to have gone down a bit smaller.

 

But otherwise, if you don't like the 515 model as much, they're always changing up details and the 02 is a staple cut. If you wait another year, there's almost certainly going to be a new version out.

I'm sure someone would want to pick them up if you put them on ebay or grailed. What era are they... Leather or linen patch? Do they have the rope-lined hem?

Would you be adverse to a lurker / new member joining in? Would love to get a collaboration in the 3009 or other cut with a bit of taper.

Ande seems to have a very definite "house style" of lighter-to-midweight crispy denim, so I think you'll find the feeling of SR11 and the mainline jeans to be quite similar. Certainly my black/white pair of Ande Whalls and the SR11s both feel like that, and it matches what people here have said about his main indigo.

 

The SR11 is only about 2 months in, so I still haven't gotten that left-hand softness coming through yet. But it does feel lighter than most of my other denim, and has been a great summer pair. It also seems to be a stubborn fader, so it would probably be tough to wear in alongside the standard indigos.