JohnM

Thanks to a friend thinning his collection I'm now in the Roy owners club. Pretty much brand new pair of RS04 and thanks to managing to lose a little weight I've also managed to come down a size. These are pretty good stuff (as you all know) and the denim is instantly recgonizable as Cone. It's been awhile since I bought any Cone, after pretty much giving up on LVC and I'm fully expecting it to be stubborn stuff. So, now I just have to have a little self control and put some good wear into them instead of changing from pair to pair throughout my hoard.

 

devilish,

 

I have the RS1001 and 1002, which are also Cone.  By 'stubborn' do you mean strong and resistant to wear or fading?  Compared with other denim (e.g., Fullcount Zimbabwe, Samurai 19 oz., Iron Heart, 3Sixteen) Roy's Cone denim seems to have a harder, less hairy look and feel.  Is this what you're talking about?  Just trying to learn somethin' here ;-)

 

John

 

John

They will shrink down to 33.5 to 34", and easily stretch back out to 36.5". You're probably going to want a jean that's starts with a raw measurement of 35".

 

Thanks setterman.  Interesting how much this 13.75 oz. Zimbabwe denim will shrink and then stretch back (i.e., 2.5 to 3.0 inches of shrinkage, then about the same amount in stretching).

 

Sort of reminds me of a response I got from Giles of Iron Heart a while back when I asked a similar question and he said something like, Yes they'll shrink but the waist will stretch back to about where it was when raw.

 

John

With a wash (don't need to use dryer) they will shrink to tagged (or a little below) at waist.

 

Forgive the basic question setterman, but if the tagged size is 34 and the raw measurement is 36.5", you're saying that they'll shrink to approximately 34" in the waist?  That would be fine, but (if so) they have a ways to go!  I realize there will also be some stretching along the way after wearing them a bit.

 

John

As I mentioned a couple of pages back, I recently received a pair of size 34 0105's and 1101's from BiG.  Given concern that the 0105 may be too big, I started with the 1101 and hot/warm soaked them for 50 minutes, followed by a line dry.  They look and feel great.  If anything, they're a still a touch roomy, but tapered in the right places and comfortable.  Here are the pre and post-soak measurements, along with the pre-soak measurements of the 0105:

 

                               1101                     0105

                   Pre-soak  After soak      Pre-soak

 

Waist               36.5"          36.0"          36.5"

Front Rise       12.5"          12.0"          12.5"

Back Rise        16.5"          16.25"        17.5"

Upper Thigh    13.75"        13.0"          14.0"

Knee                 9.75"         9.5"           10.45"

Leg Opening     8.9"          8.75"            9.5"

 

As you can see, the 1101's haven't shrunk much yet -- 0.5" max.  How much more will they shrink if I warm or hot wash and line dry them a few times?  I ask not because I'm concerned about the 1101's but because I'm trying to figure out if I should keep the 0105 or send them back for a size 33.  Setterman comments earlier that a 33 may be the way to go.

 

1101 is a really nice cut, by the way -- nice blend of comfort and taper.  Funny how I'm a 36 in the 1108XX, a 34 in the 1101, and possibly a 33 in the 0105.  One of the things I'm learning is that the fit in the waist is a function not only of the waist measurement but of where the pants sit and how they're cut.

 

Thanks.

John

Interesting exchange regarding Japanese culture, Marlon and James, etc.  I've wondered, too, why American military-inspired clothing is appealing to a culture that experienced what it did in WWII.  I asked this question of someone more knowledgeable than I years ago and he said it had something to do with the way the USA treated Japan post war, in addition to the fact that Japan ultimately recovered from the devastation and built a stronger economy and political system.  Forgive me if I speak from near total ignorance about the post war period.

 

Back on the subject of denim, it's not only interesting how certain cultures latch on to certain brands, but also how style preferences can vary.  For example, my understanding is that wider cut jeans (such as the Full Count 0105) are significantly more popular in Japan than elsewhere, no doubt due to the historical connection to early (e.g., 1955) Levi's.  It's funny how I find myself drawn to some of these styles for the same reasons regardless of how they actually look or feel on my body ;-)

 

John

btt, again ;-)

Up until today, my only pair of Full Counts was the 1108XX in size 36 -- nice high rise, comfortable waist, trim through the thighs.  With advice from several of you, I was considering the 1101 and 0105 and sized down to 34 (someone even suggested a 33 in the 0105).  The two 34's came from BiG today and I thought I'd give you a quick pre-soak report.

 

The 1101 is fantastic -- as you'd expect, a bit more room in the top block than the 1108XX but still trim overall.  Rise is relatively high (which I like) and the overall shape is a perfect blend of comfortable and trim/flattering.  These are going to get soaked tomorrow and worn frequently, especially through the summer.

 

Also as you indicated, the 0105 is MUCH roomier than the 1108 (of course) or 1101.  I probably could have sized down to 33 and the legs might be a little trimmer than the extremely roomy and spacious top block and legs of the 34 -- though 'trimmer' is probably not the word to use with the 0105.

 

I'm intrigued by the 0105, especially since I know it;s both classic and very popular in Japan.  If I didn't know this, I'd say they were too big and baggy ... or maybe they're an acquired taste.

 

Given the relaxed waist and 'two of me could fit in the legs fit', I'm wondering if these should go back.  Anyone have a sense of how much these will shrink and stretch back relative to their current raw measurements?

 

Thanks.

John

You can always get the 19 oz and that in many cuts. So you've done everything right. I think the 16 oz could turn out to be my favorite denim yet.

 

Good to hear you're liking the 710-OG Max.  Is it the denim, details, fit, or all of the above?

 

John

As some of you know, I'm relatively new to raw denim but have managed to assemble a decent collection in a short time, including Samurai (S710XX), Fullcount (1108XX), Roy (Kinda Special), Iron Heart (634s, 633s, 1955-UHR), 3Sixteen+ 21BSP, and Dry Bones/SE/Sufu collaboration.  I like them all for different reasons.  Some I like better than others.  For example, the Roy Kinda Specials have a nice high rise, sleek, flattering line, and are meticulously stitched and detailed.  The Fullcount 1108XX also has a high rise, along with a classic look and feel.  The Iron Hearts have that rough and tough denim that is protective and fun to wear when the weather and occasion are right.

 

My question though is whether you agree that there is something unique about the fit and feel of the Samurai 710.  The rise on the S710XX is actually a little lower than I'd prefer (by a hair) but I find this pair of jeans extraordinarily comfortable and body conforming for some reason.  It's almost as if it's rounded and curved in the right places for the human body.  Is there anything to this or am I just blowing smoke?  I do like the 19 oz. denim -- it's heavy yet somehow soft and breathes well.  That said, while the denim is interesting, I wouldn't say I like it more or less than that of my other jeans.  But there is some kind of comfort factor with the S710XX that I feel but don't completely understand.  Is the 710 cut simply different?  Input or explanations appreciated.

 

John

Interesting measurements Broark.  I have a tag size 35 pair of S710XX that has been hot soaked and machine washed (cold).  Your measurements are smaller than mine despite your 710OG being a size 36.

 

Broark's size 36 S710OG

Front rise: 11.5"

Back rise: 15.25"

 

My size 35 S710XX

Front rise:  11.75"

Back rise:  16.0"

 

Maybe the difference is that I only cold washed mine but I'm wondering if the rise isn't shorter on the OG than the XX.  As tempted as I am by the OG, I prefer longer rises, given my body type and age (59) and stage (as yet unknown ;-)

 

John

As a guy who's gone from buying Levi's 550's at JC Penney's to owning Samurai, Fullcount, Roy, Iron Heart, and other jeans in about a year, I have enjoyed the responses in this thread -- from oomslokop's thoughtful post to the shivman's reference to one's package resembling a member of the Blue Man Group after its owner runs 10 miles in 21 oz. jeans.

 

For the record Kyle, I also record how many soaks and washes my jeans have had.  True, Steve McQueen, Clint, Chuck Norris, Brando, and James Dean would never do this, but they probably never read superdenim either.  Plus, they're just actors, while we wear our denim in the real world.

 

Shoot, was that a cold or a warm wash last time?  If I agitate my jeans in the tub, will they get mad?

Maybe he's not a prankster - just trying to help shrink the denim!

 

Rather than shrinking the denim, my wife and family would prefer that I shrink the denim collection ;-)

Does anyone know the best way to stretch out the top block ? For some reason I have this issue with every 710 I've tried. The waist has a decent size gap that sticks out on my backside. But from the waist down to the thigh is a little tight for pre soak. The thighs are ok tho... Should I wear them for a few days before I soak them? So I can stretch them out a little bit. Or just warm soak and wear ?

 

Wish I could advise CJ23, but I have the same issue with my S710XX's.  Love the fit overall but the waist sticks out in back when I sit down, making me vulnerable to a family prankster pouring some water in there when I'm not looking ;-)

 

Regarding your question, the hard part is stretching the top block without further expanding the waist.

 

John

Love the patch Broark.  Sort of wishing Yuichi still had the S710-OG in size 35 ;-)

coldstorage,

Thanks for buying those size 35's -- Yuichi's last pair, I believe. I was considering them but own too much denim already and needed a reason to not spend more money!

John

Where might be the best place to buy a pair of Resolute 710's for those living the USA?

 

Also, how might the 710 fit compared with, say, a Samurai 710 or Fullcount 1108 (e.g., front/back rise, thigh)?

 

Thanks.

John

btt

Is it true that the RS04 has the same denim as the recent KS1002 Kinda Special?  I ask because those faded RS04's are so blue while the KS1002 has a more muted look.  Is this just related to wear and washing over time?

 

John

^^ great pictures Bobbo! The 0500 is a "all-time classic". Love my pair

 

b_f,

 

Your comment about the 0500 prompts a question (for me) regarding the trimmer 710 cut.  The thing I really like about my S710XX (size 35) pair is that it is body conforming, almost rounded and curved, in a way that is very natural and comfortable, more so than most other jeans I own.  That said, the S710XX is a little large in the waist on me relative to the thigh, such that if I'm sitting down there's an opening in the back at the waist that is a little embarrassing, almost like built-in ventilation!  Hopefully no one will pour a glass of water in there as a practical joke!.

 

My question is whether other Samurai models (e.g., 0500) have the same body-conforming strengths of the 710 while being a little roomier in the thigh relative to the waist.  Since the 710 is a slim cut it's not surprising that the thighs tend to be narrow and trim.  Maybe I should consider another Samurai model that is similar to the S710XX but a little roomier in the thigh, thereby allowing me to size the waist at 34 instead of 35.  Thoughts appreciated.

 

John

Similarly Max, Yuichi told me the 34 was about 36" and the 35 was about 37".  I'm torn between the two since I can handle the smaller waist of the 34 but not sure if the upper leg will be too trim.

 

John

Trying to decide between 34 and 35 on the 710OG.  I have a pair of size 35 S710XX -- very comfortable, a little roomy in the waist, just right in the thighs and upper legs.  The 34 would probably be marginally better in the waist but I'm a little concerned about the upper leg.  Is the 710, in general, considered a trim and tapered cut where the limiting factor is often in the upper leg?  If so, I might be better off sticking with the 35.

 

Also, will the 710 likely continue to shrink with additional washing and line drying?  So far, I've only warm/hot soaked and machine washed (cold) the S710XX one time.  I realize that the OG is an altogether different denim that may respond differently.

 

Appreciate the input.

 

John

Thanks for the price differential bf. That's a bit of a bump for organic cotton but I guess organic is always limited and more expensive whether it's milk or jeans ;-)

For everyone who doesn't follow Samurai on Facebook: the 710OG have landed!

 

Is the price significantly higher than the standard S710XX?

What is hip flare -- where the material pokes out at the sides of the hips?

Samurai S710XX (great, conforming fit)

Fullcount 1108XX (nice high rise, trim in thighs)

Roy KS1001 Kinda Special (flattering fit, trim, versatile)

Roy KS1002 Kinda Special (same fit, heavier denim)

Dry Bones/Self Edge/Superfuture collaboration (nice detailing, e.g., pocket bags)

3 Sixteen+ 21BSP (interesting denim, back rise low relative to front)

Iron Heart 634S

Iron Heart 633S (dark indigo/grey denim)

Iron Heart 1955-UHR (high rise, lots of hip and leg room)

 

For a guy who's bought many Levi 550's at JC Penney, that's a lot of jeans.  But I (we?) wlll not be deterred in the quest for the perfect fit ;-)

 

John