Paul T

If anyone ever sees any old, pre 50s, Can't Bust Em, Boss Of The Road, Special or Stronghold please email me! I'm very interested in these old brands.

Cool. Do you have a contact or a website for them? I've google'd with no success.

Hahaha there's always an exception that proves the rule, or something... I'll look out for them!

Where is the Strong Hold brand out of? are they reviving the name of the old LA brand?

517 Saddleman, introduced 1969. Hence not too many Big E ones around.

No, I can't from the photo, I'm just guessing, given the price point. RIng/OE can also be quite hard to spot. There is one famous range of jeans, that's pretty much known for being RingRing, which I found out isn't, and hadn't guessed...

By double-stitching, Serge means INSIDE the pockets - you'll see a two pairs of single line stitches on the outside, but inside that same stitching should look more or less axactly the same. On later jeans, the inside is chainstitched - the same stitching you'll see on the bottom of the hem of jeans.

They sound cool. Canada seems to be a good place for vintage gear!

No. I don't believe it's selvage fabric; I suspect the fabric is Ring/OE. In any case, even if bootcut jeans are made with what was originally selvage fabric, the selvage will be lost.

I lovethese early brands. There were already dozens of jeans makers by 1900, so in total there must be hundreds of diffferent brands that have disappeared over the years. I have a great little Type 1-derived kids' jacket, no maker's mark, probably late 40s or early 50s, in a unique selvage denim... good job I don't live in the US or I'd have a wardrobe of the stuiff.

Re first brand to offer ring-ring - Levi's Japan were producing ring-ring selvage 502 jeans in 1987, only a couple of years after Cone shelved their own looms (I think the last Cone selvage 501s were made in 1986, havne't checked tho); most people think Evis started producing the same year; Edwin had selvage by 1988, but could well have been earlier. I'd liketo know when.

But most people in the industry I've spoken to cite Adriano Goldschmied's Rivet range as being the first 'retro' selvage jean, definitely predating Evis and Levi's Japan. That said, these were all ringring selvage jeans, and there are doubtless companies who kept producing ringring denim, albeit on wide looms, right through the 80s; Replay were one of the first companies I know of to emphasise the term 'ringring', I'd be interested to know when though.

8.06: yes, these look totally legit.

No 501s EVER had selvage visible on the outside of the watch pocket or cinch.

The Japanese LVCs form this spring I've seen looked good - no visible differencees from the Valencia factory ones. But I haven't seen the US-made ones. I wonder if Japan is suplying Europe, or whether certain models are produced at certain factories.

The LVC 1933 501s have regular buttons. It's the 1930s 201 have donut hole. I do think these look fine, I don't believe any replica would have all the tags etc, and the colour of the denim itself looks exactly right, as does the narrower selvage...

Yes. Leg is straight and pretty loose.

Two requests in, whcih is probably as much as my credit card can stand right now. More later.

Whoops, checked my own post, buttons did disappear in 37; customers were supplied with snap-on buttons instead.

I put a summary on here recently and am away from my references, but I believe suspender buttons stayed until the war - there'd be no reason for a back cinch without them; main difference for 1937 was red tag and covered rivets on back pocket. Most people just cut the suspender buttons off if they were using a belt.

IN any case those jeans are totally legit. Look like the Valencia-made reissues from 2001 or so, I have an identical pair stashed at the bottom of my wardrobe, although I there's a recent version, I think from this season, too.

Last time I checked they were 19.99 sterling. maybe $37. I think there's a discount if you buy two pairs. I fancy buying a pair for painting around the house and odd jobs. I think they're all pretty long - 36 inch leg only. I'll got into town today and check. If you want a pair email me; first offer only, I guess only to people who have a long history on this board. You'd need to pay me PayPal.

Lee Friskos were their version of Can't Bust Em's Frisko Jeens. Lee were producing them as early as 1939. Can't Bust Em produced Frisko Jeens from the 20s. Lee bought the Can't Bust Em brand in, I think, 46, they were probably distributing Can't Bust Em product under their own name as part of an earlier business agreement. They bought Can't Bust Em because they were strong on the West Coast, like Levi's, with a couple of factories there. <p>

Can't Bust Em were probably making denim pants (without rivets) well before Levi's were. Their Frisko Jeens were always black, probably piece-dyed, and I think probably appeared first in a baggier, more dungaree-style fit, with bigger pockets, and later with a more Levi's style cut, but a different frotn pocket styling. Can't Bust Em made beautiful hickory stripe workwear too, which looked a bit like OshKosh kid's dungarees.

NO, it's not too intuitive... check the 'superprivate' menu, and you'll find a PM from me... I hope.

Levi's one is good, costs around $60, great photos but a bit hard to follow. Look out for a new one out in the fall, lots of rare jeans, plus lost of previously photos of cowboys, Native Americans, movie stars, etc etc, price will be less than £8 sterling, hopefully $15 or less. It's called Denim. Publisher is Aurum/ Cooper Square. Designed by the bloke who did the Blue Note Album Art book. PM me if you want details.

What's interesting historically, is that Levi's actually produced their first pants in cotton duck as well as in denim; they possibly came in white, and certainly came in a rust colour. Yet these other options seem to have disappeared very quickly, as the miners and woodcutters who were Levi's prime customers seemed to prefer the way denim aged. There aren't many items of clothing which look better as they get older.

The attraction of dry jeans is that every pair tells a story that is unique to its owner. Jeans are fashion items, but their appeal derives from the fact that they're so basic - and hence look different on every one who wears them. I confess i have around 8 identical pairs of Lee jeans, which vary from brand new condition, to just-about worn out (they're not my only jeans, by any means). I like selecting a pair according to how I feel that day. Dark if I wanna feel crisp. Distressed if I feel chilled.

Hence, of course, the irony of jeans 'aged' in the laundry, which all look identical and illustrate how you can buy an off-the-peg individuality. Which I like too. There's definitely an artistry to well-distressed jeans, and I have great respect for people like Adriano GOldschmied who helped develop these looks.

They're great jeans. Made by Edwin. I think their sanforized denim comes from Nisshinbo. How's the shrinkage?

(I had some Lee reissues that were sanforized - then the later European reissues suddenly had normal fabric, but when I checked, I discovered the sanforized ones had eventually shrunk, more than 3%, too. )

those 201s look like very bad fakes.

so WHO says the '97 range is sub-standard? Hey they're, uh, like vintage replicas!

Do you mean that first proper LVC range? The Europeans had a lot of input, one of the main guys was Geir Tandberg, from Europe but based in SF, but, crucially, so did the Japanese, including Jim Tanaka... the Japanese already had more experience of vintage reissues anyway. I think these are regarded as the beginning of the point at whcih they started to get it all right... it's only the 1992 'Capital E' reissues I know of that are lousy; I went to Valencia st around that time and saw them being made and they were awful... altho the factory looked great!

As far as how one year of LVC reissues compares with the others, I'd be interested to know if anyone sees any real differences. I haven't seen any bar 92 that look underpar, but i've seen people here say their 201 reissues look lousy, whereas I think the ones from around three years back are my favourite reissues, period.

I can't see any reason why Levi's would stop using Cone for LVC, and have heard no stories that they were plannign to move for selvage denim (they've used Kurabo occasionally for vegetable indgo denim).

The spring 2005 repros I saw were made in Japan, altho I didn't look at every pair in the range. They looked great - it took LVC Japan to sort out the reissues anyway, the first reissues made at Valencia were dreadful until Levi's Japan got involved,. I know a retilaer who told me he didn't rate the Italian-made LVC, but have never heard complaints about other US factories. Battery St is the Levi's HQ, didn't knwo they did any production there....