urban sprawl

yakboy,

check it and it will make your day!

i have been taking pictures of my raw ones regularly. once i have time i will make a photo-love story!;P

btw, 45rpm are opening a new store in the ues. and also they will introduce a new line, and new denims...!!!! cant wait!

geowu,

the bespoke ones you can have your own whiskers and chevrons placements and intensity. the pp-sponge technique at the thigh will also hit according to the shape of your thigh. also you can choose the hardware and trims... the fit is pretty much set.

so it's partial artificial and partical authentic... this is another conversation: repro or vintage?;P

Edited by urban sprawl on Apr 22, 2005 at 11:21 AM

yakboy, well i got myself 2-yrs ago a 45rpm pair which was raw. it's a beauty now! the interesting thing is that it has the old "45" embroidery (instead of the "r") at the back but then has the new (updated) selvedge.

also have you ever checked the inside of the center back beltloop?;p

i love you guys. keep it deep!

kairo: finally you got into the vintage stack...;p i am not sure if you know but when wrangler started off they copied levis. you should check it out it'll open your heart...hehe!

yo kairo, that's the fit! you can pull it...!;p

"vegetable dye" is just another marketing thing. man i just got back from the airport and picked up "cargo mag". also there's this rogan article in the nytimes. check it... it's all baout denim!

the rogan selvedge are from last year. the denim is a cotton/hemp blend i think by kurabo.

yeah everone is doin it!...

if you like the prps selvedge - did you check out the jean shop ones?

i have a pair of 201's. bought at duffer london about 5 years ago. anyone interested?

btw, who likes to roll their hems up and shows off the selvedge? if - how high or maybe how many rolls?

(i personally don't roll it up. keep it my own little secret. but if i'm in an odd mood i do one short one by 3/4")

hehe the good ol story about breaking-in. well leviathan, it's all about love - giving and taking, patience and endurance!;P no seriously, do you really wanna buy fresh new raw denim and then little by little cheat by using a sandblock...? c'mon man! you can do better? you gotta sweat and bleed in it. it really needs your own whiskers and chevrons, your own wallet and cellphone mark! then after a year you are allowed to dry clean them... do i sound to fascist?...just treat as a child...

or use ringring's suggestion: "breakdancing on carpet, preferably traditional japanese straw tatami" which is the better one!;p

actually a friend of mine got the raw natural indigo ones (which btw seem to never break-in due to the power of indigo). so he took it to our snowboarding trip and skied in them - left some blue lines on the snow...just kidding.

btw, the 45rpm's sorahiko (pure indigo) are cheaper than the yoji's one - almost the half. 45rpm are only more expansive unless it's the natural indigo or bespoke denim.

re hemming, if you live in nyc you can go to 45rpm and get them hemmed w/chainstitch for $10. afterwards i suggest (only then! a light self-sanding @ the fresh hem...hehe.

shinobi: the prps are ring-ring 3x1. unless you use a magnifying glass, it's really not that easy to identify nowadays ring/ring from others. it's also more difficult to explain it in words...good job ring-ring btw!

Edited by urban sprawl on Apr 4, 2005 at 06:46 PM

this are the kids from duffer. as far as i know they stopped. luckily i got a sweater from them.

in nyc:

union, steven alan, atrium, isa

hehe that's funny...

ok:

r by 45rpm raw

r by 45rpm sorahiko

r by 45rpm natural indigo

studio d'artisan d1177

duffer of st george raw

virus denim raw

lEvis 501xx raw

lEvis 501xx 1937

lEvis 201

lEvis 501xx 1950

lEvis white

apc new standard

omnigod

edwin 505

lee vintage selvedge but can't make up which era

ringring: as i mentioned earlier it's getting tougher to the mere eye to recognize fabrics from a shutterloom and also to recognize ring-ring...well now, it's enough!

btw, all you said is ditto. respect and i'm still a student too and very excited to learn from you too!

35mm: the prps you mean have an all-over starch in it. i was really disappointed of their latest line. seems akademiks (don) has more power...too bad, the production manager used to be the vp of production @ 45rpm.

leviathan: yeah i saw the spotted horse ones from yohji. man they're us$800 for just pure indigo! also if you see yohji's other jeanswear...kinda funky. but i like his other non-denim stuff.

thx for the site, i love the sorahiko and aihikos from 45rpm... didnt know that yohji was using the spotted horse for a long time.

btw, were you asking to hem your jeans (shorten) or lengthen them? sorry didnt get it..

Edited by urban sprawl on Apr 1, 2005 at 11:57 PM

it seems that many people like this brand here. can someone educate me why these jeans are so cool?

ijf: i dunno what time period you're reffering to. nowadays it's in north carolina.

in "looser tension" w/shuttle looms i meant that this gives all the irregularities naturally. it's not that simple to get the wide loom to do this "mistake" unless you use an emsler (which is for open-ends).

drapey-ness and a nice hand obviously differs from "article to article". especially in our oversaturated market of denim.

by "softness" i didn't mean as on a lefthand-twill or broken twill. what i mean it's kinda tough to explain in words but maybe you know what i mean by those $8+ a yard fabrics, where you can see the weft...?

...anyways, we keep repeating ourselves and i think we mean the same!

all my rigids (45rpm, studio d'artisan, etc) are obviously super stiff and almost painful but exciting to break in. i kinda stay away from LHT and BT.

can you get uniglos in the states?

ringring: nice, chainstitch @ inside hem! also nice single-needle @ inside back pocket opening...;p

wild whiskey: who are they in hk w/ the shuttle looms? any 411?

johnmc: all (closed) selvedge denim are woven from shuttle looms. i don't know any of these "new ones" but am curious if they remake them. actually they aren't many mill-companies who do selvedge. first of all there aren't many machines, secondly because of economic reasons, and lastly the lead time is so long.

the problem is that more and more people request or are into selvedge (such as paper denim) but can't "get" it, which maybe is not so bad right?

eg. cone mills, they started it but now they regret they sold'em all to japan and can only make 10.000yards a month...o well.

Edited by urban sprawl on Mar 29, 2005 at 08:50 PM

uniglo: well it is inexpensive but i heard that they use b-quality selvedge denim. i dunno if it’s true or not (but who cares?;p)

to ringring and wildwhiskey:

we were talking about using the same denim (same yarn-count, construction, twill, indigo dye) but weaving it in 2 different looms: shuttle loom vs jet loom.

i have to agree w/ ringring that the difference is not that big but i still believe in the difference and that there’s a difference.

wild whiskey pointed out that the shuttle looms might weave a “sloppier imperfect†denim – and that’s true. speed makes the difference! it doesn’t necessarily make the quality lower if it’s woven faster as on a jet loom (given the above mentioned criteria) but that slowness gives the weave a looser tension. hence, this provides a certain drapey-ness and a nicer hand. it provides w/ more texture due to the irregularities and damages which you will not get from the wider looms. it is totally an aesthetic value than rather a performance value. and not to mention the beautiful selvedge in herself.

in the wider loom, yes you will also have probably good and interesting texture but no imperfection, no wabi.

jet looms such as water or air jets can not weave closed-selvedges. the fabric will obviously have a selvedge (as any other fabric) but won’t be closed as on the shuttle looms. also the possibilities that you will get a not so well-constructed denim on the narrower loom is generally higher – or let’s say that it’s almost true that all selvedge denim has a higher quality construction.

ringring, you made a good point and made me think and ponder about the notion of selvedge. you almost broke my ideals… thank you for that train of thought and stimuli!

wild w, believe in selvedge and her mysticism, her beauty, her majesty…hehe i do.

it's all about the benjamins... and synthetics. mass production for convenient and comfortable masses.

but hey, because there's kmart jeans people like us have something to dream about...happy easter!

goewu, sorry that you can't find'em. maybe it would be too easy and convenient if you could?;p

ringring,

some denim you havent mentioned.

omnigod - i think same mill as prps

rogan - had his name on the selvedge

kato - most beautiful fabric from japan

virus - most beautiful slubs from japan

club monaco - they're having some japanese reds.

45rpm - sorahiko and aihiko!!!

rrl - but of polo but very nice. green selvedge

jean shop - nyc part of lucky. orange selvedge

Edited by urban sprawl on Mar 26, 2005 at 10:23 AM

Edited by urban sprawl on Mar 26, 2005 at 10:24 AM

as ringring said the term "ring-ring" is more a technical term. basically it means that the warp and weft are ring-spun - kinda "cashmere of denim"!

after the 70's "open-end" spinning was introduced. this spinning basically skips several processes that ring yarns go through. for the same reason as non-selvedge: faster, cheaper, more effecient.

later, to kinda replicate ring/ring, they introduced "faux-ring" or "ring/oe". basically the warp is ring and the weft is open-end spun. hence you keep the price down but get a stronger denim than just oe on both. but that's not the real mccoy right?!

usually, or if you happen to have lots of time to look at denim for some odd reason, you can see the difference between ring/ring or oe. but nowadays, it's tougher to distinguish between ring/ring and ring/oe since they try to fake the slubbyness or irregularities.

another factor of the strength but also beauty of denim is how the twill was woven. the more common construction is 2x1 or 3x1. the latter one is the more expensive but also the more stronger one.

contrary to ringring's statement, i think it makes a difference whether you spin it on a shuttle loom or 60"wide loom. the machines are so different that it will effect the denim - time makes a difference. but there's bad and cheap selvedge out there with weak constructions!

another important thing is the dyeing process. i have been reading here some stuff about natural indigo (such as the studio d'artisan)... well if you don't mind i would like to write something about it.')

there are many techniques of dyeing and also with what. there's rope dyeing, ring dyeing, sulphur dyeing, etc...

good authentic ring indigo denim is rope dyed. threads are gathered to ropes and dyed in several baths of indigo, then washed dried beamed and finally woven.

at ring dye, only the outer ring of fibres are dyed, leaving the core undyed therefore easier to get hi-lows later. also to enhance the effect you can mercerize it.

most of the denim in the market are pure indigo - a petroleum based synthetic dye or sulphur indigo. here the warps are treated either prior the dye (sulphur bottom) to keep the core of the yarn from the indigo, or after the dye (sulphur top). pure indigo has no sulphur dye.

natural indigo, as most of you know is harvested from the plant such as indigofera, storobilanthes and polygonum. the whole process is very time-consuming and not cheap. i heard that during the fermentation process urine is used...?!

hope this helps.

back to saturday!

well take5 is in hk... where are you at?