urban sprawl

it started as joe mccoy, then they changed it to real mccoy. then they split and now it's toys mccoy (military, boots)/ buco (motorbike)/ mchill (denim, tees) and the real mccoy.

if you find some deadstock joe mccoy 901 let me know. i did found some in hk but in black.

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You're right. Thanks for the correction.

As another comparison, the Hawaii's, all-natural Edo Ai's, Pure Blue AI's, Pigboy XXX-26 and 45 Jomons all are natural indigo and different shades of blue.

Edited by ringring on May 21, 2006 at 04:28 AM

--- Original message by ringring on May 21, 2006 04:22 AM

btw, i forgot to mention that the most consistent and strongest dyeing method is "rope dye". here yarns are bundled in the shape of a rope and soaked in a large bath, pulled up and oxidized in the air. this process is repeated by 8-9 times until the color is fixed as planned. especially oxidation treatment is a key to sharpen the color of indigo. most of the selvedge or better denim fabric is rope-dyed. just fyi;)

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You're right. Thanks for the correction.

As another comparison, the Hawaii's, all-natural Edo Ai's, Pure Blue AI's, Pigboy XXX-26 and 45 Jomons all are natural indigo and different shades of blue.

Edited by ringring on May 21, 2006 at 04:28 AM

--- Original message by ringring on May 21, 2006 04:22 AM

btw, i forgot to mention that the most consistent and strongest dyeing method is "rope dye". here yarns are bundled in the shape of a rope and soaked in a large bath, pulled up and oxidized in the air. this process is repeated by 8-9 times until the color is fixed as planned. especially oxidation treatment is a key to sharpen the color of indigo. most of the selvedge or better denim fabric is rope-dyed. just fyi;)

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this is a great thread!

--- Original message by mizanation on May 18, 2006 05:52 PM

long time ago, ringring and i discussed the matter of dyeing. for denim it is as important as the construction of the weave.

as you guys know there are lots of variants to dye the weft yarn - the main ones are an industrial synthesis of indigo (pure indigo) eg: sulphur dye, reactive dye, mordant dye etc, or the traditional natural indigo dye.

nowadays the market is filled w/ synthetic indigo b/c of the same reason of using jetloom denim. the process to have natural indigo is so costly and time-consuming (fermantation...) that people can't effort it and don't want to.

but there's also another reason: natural indigo fastens so strongly on the yarn that if you want to create whiskers and chevrons, or have medium indigo shade, it takes more time which means more money.

(side note: many japanese mills nowadays weave natural indigo in india which makes it half expensive)

usually you can see the difference between natural and synthetic indigo (much easier than selvedge vs. non-selvedge). the nat indigo is much richer and generally more reddish-grey. but as ringring noted it also depends how you dye it eg: temperature of water and air, humidity, etc.

as any garment, the balance/ shape, stitching/ construction is very important. you can't cut+sew denim in "ordinary" garment factory unless you don't want for instance felled seams and chainstitches. by saying that you also want a great "needle" work. this depends which machines they use and also what kind of thread. there're so many kinds of thread (100% cotton, cotton wrap poly, poly etc) too.

and not to forget what kind of hardware (shanks, burr/rivets)...

i don't even wanna start talking about the wet and dry process which is whole nother thread!

these are all components which makes a superb pair of denim. not many respect this...

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at 18000 yen, the pure blues are not too bad... if they are made from ex-45rpm people, then quality should be outstanding...

--- Original message by mizanation on May 1, 2006 08:41 AM

It's kind of the other way around. Pure Blue used to make jeans for 45rpm. Some seriously denimnerdy people I know, rate the quality higher than the current 45rpm jeans.

Anyway, take it from me, the denim used is top class.

BTW, they fit true to size. Relatively low rise (for a Japanese 'repro') and slim fitting. The natural indigo style fits a little tighter in the waist and rise, but the difference is pretty insignificant.

--- Original message by ringring on May 1, 2006 09:46 AM

hey man,

it's been awhile.

so pureblue is before spotted horse?

anything new?

--- Original message by urban sprawl on May 5, 2006 12:06 PM

Hey friend

Pure Blue are nice. They are probably not for everyone - the natural indigo one has denim so 'bobbly' it looks quite odd LOL. It just depends where your tastes lie.

New?

For some reason, I've been drifting towards lefties in recent months. eg.

Studio D'artisan's X's2-6 LH, grey weft, 13.5oz Wrangler 11MW style

SD XXX-26, their latest natural indigo LH 14.5oz zipper jeans

Samurai S0110XJ - 150z, LH Lee repro.

You?

Edited by ringring on May 6, 2006 at 01:43 AM

--- Original message by ringring on May 6, 2006 01:42 AM

well i forced myself to chill and wear only my own stuff...hehe. gotta spread the love. obviously i'm not gonna tell you the brand;) but it's nice fabric: kuroki, collect (via amhot), nishinbo. all selvedge, all done in okayama.

but i got some 501XX ww2, a pair kuroki gave me, and kapital. not much is catching my eye and soul.

it's good seeing you're still running this site.

hit me up now and then...

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at 18000 yen, the pure blues are not too bad... if they are made from ex-45rpm people, then quality should be outstanding...

--- Original message by mizanation on May 1, 2006 08:41 AM

It's kind of the other way around. Pure Blue used to make jeans for 45rpm. Some seriously denimnerdy people I know, rate the quality higher than the current 45rpm jeans.

Anyway, take it from me, the denim used is top class.

BTW, they fit true to size. Relatively low rise (for a Japanese 'repro') and slim fitting. The natural indigo style fits a little tighter in the waist and rise, but the difference is pretty insignificant.

--- Original message by ringring on May 1, 2006 09:46 AM

hey man,

it's been awhile.

so pureblue is before spotted horse?

anything new?

--- Original message by urban sprawl on May 5, 2006 12:06 PM

Hey friend

Pure Blue are nice. They are probably not for everyone - the natural indigo one has denim so 'bobbly' it looks quite odd LOL. It just depends where your tastes lie.

New?

For some reason, I've been drifting towards lefties in recent months. eg.

Studio D'artisan's X's2-6 LH, grey weft, 13.5oz Wrangler 11MW style

SD XXX-26, their latest natural indigo LH 14.5oz zipper jeans

Samurai S0110XJ - 150z, LH Lee repro.

You?

Edited by ringring on May 6, 2006 at 01:43 AM

--- Original message by ringring on May 6, 2006 01:42 AM

well i forced myself to chill and wear only my own stuff...hehe. gotta spread the love. obviously i'm not gonna tell you the brand;) but it's nice fabric: kuroki, collect (via amhot), nishinbo. all selvedge, all done in okayama.

but i got some 501XX ww2, a pair kuroki gave me, and kapital. not much is catching my eye and soul.

it's good seeing you're still running this site.

hit me up now and then...

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at 18000 yen, the pure blues are not too bad... if they are made from ex-45rpm people, then quality should be outstanding...

--- Original message by mizanation on May 1, 2006 08:41 AM

It's kind of the other way around. Pure Blue used to make jeans for 45rpm. Some seriously denimnerdy people I know, rate the quality higher than the current 45rpm jeans.

Anyway, take it from me, the denim used is top class.

BTW, they fit true to size. Relatively low rise (for a Japanese 'repro') and slim fitting. The natural indigo style fits a little tighter in the waist and rise, but the difference is pretty insignificant.

--- Original message by ringring on May 1, 2006 09:46 AM

it's been awhile.

so pureblue is before spotted horse?

anything new?

denim

god

lady

ego

music

i can only echo that. even in japan, the lvc's had mistakes and inaccurancies: bartak, stitching, hardware...not even mentioning the fabric and selvedge colour.

it's sad to see a bad repro...

the designer of 5ep used to head up rrl and also did sunday. she's really talented.

i think what you get for the price is pretty awesome but prefer sunday since it doesnt have wrangler details...just personal taste.

you can get it also @stevan alan and takashimaya.

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yeah, i though so. you're the man!

going there again next month. so join me!

--- Original message by urban sprawl on Nov 22, 2005 03:11 PM

Now that's a nice invite. December's packed out for me and I'm envious . Hope our paths cross another time though.

--- Original message by ringring on Nov 22, 2005 03:18 PM

yeah, i though so. you're the man!

going there again next month. so join me!

no beams dont have it. these above brands have their own stores.

get the lighting tokyo shops issue. mostly they're in ebisu and daikanayama.

for denim check also omnigod, real mccoy, okura, kapital, lvc, 45rpm, johnbull, denime, fullcount, drybones etc.

have fun and max your credit card.

hey check out kapital. this my new favourite.

hey ringring, just got back from a long japan trip. shit bro, you gotta check kapital if you dont know them. also had dinner with the guy from spotted horse...

well there're lot of rumours.

since paul t evoked this curiosity i tried to get the info.

i was in a small denim mill in okayama called kiyama 2 weeks ago (which btw was the most graceful place on earth). the owner said that there're about 200 looms in japan. the shuttles are mostly from companies such as toyoda, enshu and sakamoto.

maybe looms were sold to japan from n.c. but i doubt that much was bought. logistically each are very heavy, different voltage, shipping price, etc...why wouldnt they use their own which they started making in the 60s?

so if you show me that they have more than 8 american looms and use it (not only put in a display) then i will believe you. sorry mate.

Edited by urban sprawl on Nov 22, 2005 at 02:58 PM

nice paul. gonna order it right now!

btw, japan doesnt have american shuttle looms.))

hey guys,

i will be in tokyo, okayama etc next week. someone wanna hang?

hit me.

how do they look like the selvedge ones? worth it?

ok, i will have takashi, sweetorr, superslim or british bulldog!!!

let's wrestle.

hehe, good luck. i've been looking for the 901s for a while. found only in black in hk.

btw, these are the joe mccoy.

real mccoy is the new name. the ones which are similar are the lot s613.

but i heard that they split again and have again a new name.

if you're into their helmets and toys:

http://www.toys-mccoy.com/

takashi:

very nice. very nice ai!!! very slubby or is it a very loose weave? cant really figure it out. how heavy?

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urban sprawl, where did you get the 1890? i'm looking for one too...

--- Original message by hahnstch on Jul 27, 2005 05:46 PM

shorty long: went to breadandbutter!

saw this fall collection. got myself the 1890's. very nice. hammered rivets...

also saw the 2006 collection. there's this nice leather jkt.

they also gonna launch a new line called "blue". kinda red meets engineered. very interesting.

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I bought a pair of Levi's off of ebay recently and I think that they might be fake. Aside from having the redline inside the leg, it's on the outside of the back belt loop and on the outside of the coin pocket. They were sold as 1955 repro's. Do any of you know if Levi's made jeans with the redline in those places, or are these definite fakes? Thanks!

--- Original message by AmericanTemplar on May 25, 2005 06:34 AM

i picked up a pair like yours @ the rose bowl for $40. they're fake but have a nice fabric and a nice rinse wash with some light authentic whiskering. that's the reason why i bought them. i think they're so funny!

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ringring, I just saw on a website about it, on an old discussion board, someone said Cone Mills had changed to the wide-width looms and the old ones were deteriorating, getting useless... and they had a hard time to fix them, so they sold about 90% of them to Japan (I believe the first post-wide-width-loom narrow-width-loom-denim-manufacturers were Kurabo and Kaihara). These Japanese fixed the "complicated" old looms piece by piece "with the precision of a watch" and so on... while in Cone Mills they still have a very small quantity of old looms. I think they still use the old looms at Cone Mills. Oh, and the Japanese have learned from the looms they acquired to develop and build their own narrow-width looms. -sorry if this doesn't make much sense I'm need to sleep-

--- Original message by Geowu on Jul 11, 2005 03:09 AM

cone has about 30 of their original looms, and not all are still running. they are from the 1950s to 1960s. cone started switching totally to wide width looms and open end yarn in the early 1980s for mass production. cone still makes denim for levis "lvc" and sells some other qualities to various other companies in small quantities. after ww2 in the 1950s the u.s. was in a huge econmoic growth and occupied japan, at this time alot of american equipment from various types of factories was sold to japan. im sure looms were sent to japan, but currently i think most of the shuttle looms that kaihara and kurabo use are more modern copies of old style looms...

--- Original message by sweet orr on Jul 11, 2005 06:30 AM

apparently, the person who really knew how to fix and operate them passed away without having an apprentice...

paul, i can imagine the japanese buying them. they buy everything including paris!;p

they always want the real deal...

i just sampled some cone selvedges and i'm not too impressed...also their leadtime is longgggg.