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Chocolate Connoisseurs - SuperCacao


kiya

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I've been following the chocolate world and studying chocolate for six or seven years now...

I love it, it's one of my favorite things because it's so endless, and it truly hasn't been fully explored yet, so there's so much to discover.. Same reasons I'm so heavily into craft beers and help run a beer club in San Francisco.

There's so much to discover and a support group always helps push further into the next level of chocolate, beer, or whatever other geeky thing warms your brain.

I'll start this off..

Single origin cacao is great and has been studied for years now, but single crop is a new thing coming up more in the chocolate world.. Where there's a single strain of bean turned into a bar, and done three or four seasons back to back and there's a vertical tasting to taste the differences between season and year.

Domori is doing amazing things with splicing strains that have been extinct for many years, mostly due to being wiped out by natural disasters such as hurricanes over a hundred years ago... They're taking it further by buying their own crop land in Central and South America and overseeing the entire process from bean to bar, which is intense considering they're an Italian company.

Some of my favorite brands:

http://www.domori.com/it/home.php

Domori is the shit... the way i see it is that they're leading the pack and seem to have quite a bit of money to work with to push cacao research into the next generation of manufacturers. They make some of the most expensive bars in the world, but you don't need much, they go up to about $20 for a 50g bar, so essentially it's a $40 bar of chocolate..

http://www.slitti.it/

Slitti makes the best dark milk bar i've ever tasted, clocking in at 72% it's perfectly balanced, i just wish the bars were thinner. Overall amazing..

http://www.claudiocorallo.com/

Claudio Corallo's line is well established by really brining in coffee beans into the mix, not really by using coffee beans but by using cupping techniques and bringing it over to the chocolate world. Their bars are mostly prepacks of five bars, they're quite pricey, but worth every penny. Bar shape is perfect and they're very well tempered.

My chocolate dealer...

Chocolate Covered: http://www.yelp.com/biz/chocolate-covered-san-francisco

I've been going there about once a week for six years or so...

Once we get to page ten of this thread we will have Superfuture SuperCacao Meet-up. "Hai Guys! Let's eat Theobroma and go to Barney's!"

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This is a thread I've been wanting to see in here for a long time, but never started because I simply didn't know enough about it to make for a good first post.

Kiya has taken me to this chocolate dealer of his and I got some different stuff to try out;

- Vosges

*Mo's Bacon bar (applewood smoked bacon, alder wood smoked salt, deep milk chocolate) 41% cacao

*Red Fire Bar (Mexican ancho & chipotle chillies, ceylon cinnamon, dark chocolate) 55% cacao

*Woolloomooloo Bar (roasted &salted macademia nuts, indonesian coconut, hemp seeds, deep milk chocolate) 41% cacao

- Cowgirl Chocolates

*Mild Dark chocolate lavender, 55% cacao

- Some brand I forgot the name of, but it is dark chocolate with some chillie pepper and pistacho nuts, very good and very spicy

- Café Tasse

*Extra noir, 77% cacao

- E. Guittard

*Nocture, pure extra dark chocolate, 91 % cacao

- Michel Cluizel

*Noir Infini, 99% cacao

- Chocolat Bonnat

*Voiron, 100% cacao

I haven't tried all of them yet and will report back on these.

For some reason I have always been drawn towards the very high percentages of cacao, and finding out why it is that "purists" go so crazy over that, I hadn't had a chance to try out anything above 80% and went straight to 100% a couple of weeks ago and it certainly is not easy...

I was aware that to be able to fully enjoy the flavor you have to work your way up towards the purest bar, just couldn't wait to try the 100%.

What I didn't know is that there are ways to eat the chocolate that allow you to be able to enjoy the flavour pallete within a certain bar more. Not very much unlike winetasting. Kiya told me that the best way to taste chocolate is to break a small piece up in your mouth, and sticking it back together with your tongue to the roof of your mouth, while breathing in. This allows the individual flavours to be released and tasted gradually while the chocolate melts in your mouth (I hope that made sense), and it certainly works on some of the more fancy flavoured bars I described above.

So no more gobbling down whole bars in single bites for me...

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i'm sure this on some tourist level noob shit, but there's a confectioner in the ferry building that makes some really tasty stuff. i'm don't think it's artisanal or anything like that, and again, they're a confectioner not a chocolatier. but every time i'm in SF i make sure i swing by for their fleur de sel, which is chocolate covered caramel w/ sea salt. it's a really nice balance.

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My chocolate dealer...

Chocolate Covered: http://www.yelp.com/biz/chocolate-covered-san-francisco

I've been going there about once a week for six years or so...

Once we get to page ten of this thread we will have Superfuture SuperCacao Meet-up. "Hai Guys! Let's eat Theobroma and go to Barney's!"

I've also been going to that same dealer once a week for the past six months now for my weekly stock up on drinking chocolate and chocolate bars. They've got quite a collection and worth the trip for any chocoholic. The man behind the counter's always a joy to talk to and definitely knows his chocolate.

- Chocolat Bonnat

*Voiron, 100% cacao

I'm currently going through one bar a week of their 8 "Grands Crus du Cacao". Just tasting the difference between their chocolates quite a joy and the single crop stuff that Kiya's talked about above seems pretty interesting. Will have to give those a shot.

i'm sure this on some tourist level noob shit, but there's a confectioner in the ferry building that makes some really tasty stuff. i'm don't think it's artisanal or anything like that, and again, they're a confectioner not a chocolatier. but every time i'm in SF i make sure i swing by for their fleur de sel, which is chocolate covered caramel w/ sea salt. it's a really nice balance.

The confectioner in the Ferry Building's called Recchiuti. They've got a decent drinking chocolate mix and I'm crazy for their Rose Caramel truffle.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So it was kind of coldish today and I immediatly craved hot cocoa, any good suggestions?

Oh and Rose Caramel Truffle sounds delicious btw...

Also, the difference between 91%, 99% and 100% cocoa is very noticable, even between the 99% and 100% I found, can this also have to do with the fact that I tried different bars from different brands?

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I'm looking for hot chocolate rec's too. My favorite drinks are Mochas and I'm getting bored of the hot chocolate I'm using. At that coffee shop I work at we use Lake Champlain hot cocoa mix and this aztec hot cocoa mix they make. While I like both of them well enough, I know there's gotta be better out there, I want a thicker drink and something that is more than sweet. The Lake Champlain Aztec hot chocolate is good... but not spicy enough.

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I'm actually drinking some Vosges hot chocolate as I type. Actually, waiting for it to cool down a little bit. If you're thinking of going to a shop in SF to get some hot chocolate, Christopher Elbow has a decent one over in Hayes Valley, Cocoa Bella serves up a mean extra dark in the Westfield Mall, and since Cotton since you're in Valencia you might want to check out Bi-Rite Creamery over at 18th and Dolores. In the cold months they serve up hot chocolate, although I don't remember exactly how good theirs is since it was before I started on my chocolate craze. Or you could also head over to the Bi-Rite grocery and pick up either the Askenozia (not sure how that's spelled) or the Reccuiti mix and make it at home.

If you're looking for particular brands of hot chocolate that you can order online, Woodhouse Chocolate in St. Helena, California

Jacques Torres

Vosges

Marie Belle

Reccuiti

I like all of the above and I believe they can be ordered online. Marie Belle is unsweetened, so you sweeten it to taste.

BTW, the bottom four of the above list can be bought from Chocolate Covered in SF for those in the area.

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this may be well known to most of you, but a guy called Willie Harcourt-Cooze had a channel 4 show in England that was about him farming and making cacao, and trying to make the best chocolate in the world. It had a lot of the process and techniques used in making artisan chocolate.

His chocolate was available at selfridges, Venezuelan Black

I tried some of it, made a cake and some hot chocolate, was pretty good, but I mostly buy low brow chocolate. 0_o

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i usually only stick with dark chocolate and generally 80% or above. as cotton duck said, there are different ways to eat the higher % chocolates for different effects.pretty much 99% of the time i'm having a piece of dark it's with black coffee and there are like 100 different ways to experiment with eating/drinking it together. I've actually never had anything above 92%, but i'd like to try.

also, stay away from this place:

206264016_00c7739026.jpg

seriously, chocolates have nightmares about this place.

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Just found this "Baylist" from San Francisco Chronicle for good chocolate spots:http://baylist.sfgate.com/lifestyle/specialty-food-and-drink/chocolate?page=1

Will have to check some of these out. Anyone with experience in any of those listed in the link? I'm thinking of checking out the Bittersweet Chocolate Cafe tonight, if I get off work early enough.

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Great thread Kiya!!

For those in SF, i recommend checking out CocoaBella. They have a marvelous selection of truffles and bars, and they excellent drinking chocolate.

http://www.cocoabella.com/

Bittersweet has a great selection of bars, but so does Fog City News. They also have a selection of good drinking chocolates; I prefer their Spicy.

My favorite chocolate by far is Askinosie. Incredible darks, and absolutely AMAZING white chocolate. They share profits with farmers, which is highly respectable.

http://askinosie.com/

And for make at home drinking chocolate, Theo sells an excellent 'sipping chocolate' with chiles.

http://www.theochocolate.com/products/theo-confections.php

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Stopped by Bittersweet Chocolate Cafe yesterday on Fillmore in SF. Wooden floors and picnic-like tables. Kinda reminds me of my stereotype of a barn, since I've never actually been in one.

Their bittersweet hot chocolate's not that bad. They use water instead of milk, so the chocolate flavor comes out. Would have like it to have been a little thicker by way of less water, but I'll have to request that next time. They've also got a bunch of pastries that involve chocolate in one way or another. Good selection of chocolate bars, organized by milk, dark, and etc (etc = things other than chocolate in the bar). It really is a cafe and less a chocolate shop, so if you've got some studying to do and would rather get your caffeine through chocolate than coffee, this is the spot to be.

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This is a great topic! For me the matter of cacao has always been up there with denim and coffee.

I ocassionally have that sweet tooth in need of a sweet chocolate bar but when I am in cacao appreciation mode I tend to seek out a good cacao nib. Scarffen Berger is probably the easiest to find (seek out the non-chocolate covered ones). Eat them straight up to understand what part of a sweet chocolate bar actually comes from cacao. It's definitely an acquired taste like coffee, beer, raw denim and fish but so worth it.

Put some crushed cacao in a good ice cream to balance the sweetness.

Munch on cacoa nibs with a light beer (hoegaarden) or sweet dark (Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout).

Then go find a good hardcover first edition of Sophie and Michael Coe's The True History of Chocolate. You won't regret it.

Does anyone want to swap cacao bean brewing recipes (no, not hot chocolate).

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This is a great topic! For me the matter of cacao has always been up there with denim and coffee.

I ocassionally have that sweet tooth in need of a sweet chocolate bar but when I am in cacao appreciation mode I tend to seek out a good cacao nib. Scarffen Berger is probably the easiest to find (seek out the non-chocolate covered ones). Eat them straight up to understand what part of a sweet chocolate bar actually comes from cacao. It's definitely an acquired taste like coffee, beer, raw denim and fish but so worth it.

Put some crushed cacao in a good ice cream to balance the sweetness.

Munch on cacoa nibs with a light beer (hoegaarden) or sweet dark (Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout).

Then go find a good hardcover first edition of Sophie and Michael Coe's The True History of Chocolate. You won't regret it.

Does anyone want to swap cacao bean brewing recipes (no, not hot chocolate).

oh man this sounds great. i'm going to have to check this stuff out. thanks for the recommendation.

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This sounds great, will have to try for sure, so just have some nibs on the side while enjoying a beer???

Exactly.

Nibs, not nuts.

I think the idea I am advocating is to experience cacao in an unusual (in our social context) way to see a different dimension of it.

In early mesoAmerican history cacao beans were used as currency. Put your money where your mouth is.

The chocolate drink of the day was a bitter, spicy beverage, not unlike Turkish coffee, I imagine-- with pepper and spices.

Before the heydays of cafes, right before the tea houses phenomenon of Great Britain, chocolate houses were all the rage, I understand. Quite mind blowing.

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Pairing chocolate and beer is amazing and can be lots of fun.

A couple of years ago i led a tasting at Toronado with Pete Schlosberg (founder of Pete's wicked Ale's and also Cocoa Pete's Chocolates) and we paired 11 beers with 16 different single origin chocolates.

Wit beers paired with high cocoa content bars with topical nibs went over very well, but was a bit too intense for some tasters.

Stone makes a fairly new stout where they incorporate cocoa solids into the final mash which creates a super full round tasting stout with overtones of berries, espresso beans, and an italian bitters finish. Others have attempted making a true cocoa beer, but Stone perfected it.

Back to chocolate... Glad to see this thread moving along, i was scared at first that people would look at the first post and say "uhm, this isn't for me..".

Another reason why Sufu is a great place for my head to live in.

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Wow, Kiya's dropping names. I don't know any of those references. Will be sure to check everything out through the power of google and a good liquor store.

Can I also recommend pairing cheeses with cacao? Nibs go especially well with a good geitost (Gudbrandsdalsost).... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geitost

May be too sweet with a 82% bar but something in the 99% range or straight nibs would do quite well. Add lightly toasted Japanese white bread, sweet milk (Carnations is fine), and black coffee and you get the perfect Sunday breakfast...or late night snack.

Pairing chocolate and beer is amazing and can be lots of fun.

A couple of years ago i led a tasting at Toronado with Pete Schlosberg (founder of Pete's wicked Ale's and also Cocoa Pete's Chocolates) and we paired 11 beers with 16 different single origin chocolates.

Wit beers paired with high cocoa content bars with topical nibs went over very well, but was a bit too intense for some tasters.

Stone makes a fairly new stout where they incorporate cocoa solids into the final mash which creates a super full round tasting stout with overtones of berries, espresso beans, and an italian bitters finish. Others have attempted making a true cocoa beer, but Stone perfected it.

Back to chocolate... Glad to see this thread moving along, i was scared at first that people would look at the first post and say "uhm, this isn't for me..".

Another reason why Sufu is a great place for my head to live in.

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I normally wouldn't be so into a company that isn't in the "bean to bar" business but i've loved See's since i was a little kid and this new article written about the company is firm proof to anybody that runs their own business that if you do things "right", go above and beyond what's expected from your customers, and stay true to what you do, you'll outlast all of your competition.

Read on:

http://www.foodgal.com/2008/10/a-peek-inside-the-sees-candy-factory/

Edit: In Japan it's customary to take a small gift to every trip we take out to Japan for the president and managers of EVERY company we meet with, and the Japanese love chocolate.. so about a year ago i bought 30 1lb boxes of See's chocolates, each one costing us $14.50. When we gave them all the chocolates we told them "these were made in San Francisco, blah, blah, blah.." and they were floored, even though we had given them all sorts of other things in the past, the See's boxes seem to make a big impact for some odd reason..

Then my wife and i were walking around Omotesando one day and walked across a See's candy store, we went in just for fun.... The same box of candy we took to Japan? $74 EACH! We talked to the SA for a bit and she told us that the store has been the hottest new chocolate store in Tokyo the last few months and they've been getting massive press due to their retro image and how the chocolates are made in American and not in Europe like 99% of the other "fancy chocolates" in Japan. So here they were, our guys in Japan thinking i bought $500 worth of chocolate for each company..

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Great story Kiya.

Some resources for raw and roasted cacao.

Raw criollo (actually most likely a trinitario) beans and nibs from Natural Zing...these are great:

http://www.naturalzing.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_48

Roasted cacao from Scharffen Berger / Dagoba...fine for cooking, putting in ice cream...it's more bitter than the raw with less character:

http://www.scharffenberger.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PP+2KG+NIBS

http://www.dagobachocolate.com/prodinfo.asp?number=2600%2E80

As far as I know it's unlikely SB's roasted nibs are fully criollo. The Dagoba's are all criollo but I can't be sure if it's single origin.

And finally, if you can find them, Askinosie single origin roasted nibs:

https://www.askinosie.com/c-2-cocoa-nibs.aspx

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I hope this thread keeps growing...I have about 15 tabs open and have no idea how long it will take me to make it through them, but I am excited, because along with coffee/espresso, beer, and cheese, I have really been hoping to expand my knowledge of artisan chocolate.

Edit: rereading my thread makes me realize how much I miss living in the Bay Area where I could bike and BART to so many places with insane amounts of knowledge about and tasty examples of the foods and drinks I love.

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I normally wouldn't be so into a company that isn't in the "bean to bar" business but i've loved See's since i was a little kid and this new article written about the company is firm proof to anybody that runs their own business that if you do things "right", go above and beyond what's expected from your customers, and stay true to what you do, you'll outlast all of your competition.

Read on:

http://www.foodgal.com/2008/10/a-peek-inside-the-sees-candy-factory/

Edit: In Japan it's customary to take a small gift to every trip we take out to Japan for the president and managers of EVERY company we meet with, and the Japanese love chocolate.. so about a year ago i bought 30 1lb boxes of See's chocolates, each one costing us $14.50. When we gave them all the chocolates we told them "these were made in San Francisco, blah, blah, blah.." and they were floored, even though we had given them all sorts of other things in the past, the See's boxes seem to make a big impact for some odd reason..

Then my wife and i were walking around Omotesando one day and raw across a See's candy store, we went in just for fun.... The same box of candy we took to Japan? $74 EACH! We talked to the SA for a bit and she told us that the store has been the hottest new chocolate store in Tokyo the last few months and they've been getting massive press due to their retro image and how the chocolates are made in American and not in Europe like 99% of the other "fancy chocolates" in Japan. So here they were, our guys in Japan thinking i bought $500 worth of chocolate for each company..

I've been wondering how See's is doing everytime I drive by their building on El Camino in San Bruno. I was always under the impression that they were becoming outdated and losing relevance in the market.

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When in Portland, DO NOT miss 'Cacao Drink Chocolate'.

http://www.cacaodrinkchocolate.com/

http://www.yelp.com/biz/cacao-drink-chocolate-portland

They have delicious drinking chocolate and a great selection of chocolate. Plus, they will allow you to sample anything they sell for free. The staff is knowledgeable about their chocolate and very friendly.

When I was there a few weeks ago, three of us sampled about a dozen different kinds of chocolates. I had only requested to sample about 3/4 of those, and they brought out even more after the discussions we had about the samples I requested.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Be on the lookout for Kallari Chocolate at Whole Foods. I had the pleasure of buying and sharing a bar 2.5 years ago when I was in Ecuador and it was amazing. After traveling the in Amazon, when back in Quito, I went back to the coffee shop where I purchased it, but alas they were sold out.

There was just an article in the New York Times about Kallari. It is good chocolate and sustainable.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/dining/05choc.html?em

I have been to a couple Whole Foods in search, but haven't seen it yet.

edit: I bought an 85% Kallari bar and it is incredibly good. It is complex, and not bitter at all. For those in SF, I was told that the SoMa store has them in stock.

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