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SUPERDENIM SMALL QUESTIONS THREAD (Use instead of making new threads)


minya

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What about American made brands which cost just as much as imported Japanese brands.

 

What about 'em?  Of the american brands I've handled (LVC, 3Sixteen, Tellason), IMO, not a one of the them is worth the $200+ asking price.  A couple years ago when the yen was strong and MIJ jeans were over $300, American jeans makers took that as an opportunity to hike up the price of the products.  I use LVC as an example, in 2008 you could get raw 501s for around $180, for the past few years they've been asking $250, and now they're as much as $280.  There's no way their costs have gone up enough to justify raising the price $100 a pair (and during that time quality has definitely declined).  They (and all the American brands) were riding a wave of raw denim popularity and increasing Japanese prices.  Now, with the weak yen, and declining prices, I find myself hard pressed to justify spending over $200 for any pair of jeans.  

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LVC is a bad example. They produce marginal quality goods with cheap fabrics then use an obvious mark up for "heritage". The recent influx of American brands aren't making as much as you think they are. It's pretty damn expensive to cut/sew in the US with custom made Japanese fabrics. 3sixteen and others are aptly priced at in the $200's.

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I applaud their efforts, but I'll stick with my initial opinion, the American brands I've handled didn't strike me as being a $200+ product.  They might have to sell them at that price to make the level of profit they want, but I don't see them being worth that amount of money.  And the fact that so many US jean makers are using Cone, tells me they're going with what's available to them, and don't have the contacts or resources to have a fabric made for them and them alone.   

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I applaud their efforts, but I'll stick with my initial opinion, the American brands I've handled didn't strike me as being a $200+ product.  They might have to sell them at that price to make the level of profit they want, but I don't see them being worth that amount of money. 

 

The question of "worth" is an inherently interesting one in a conversation about consumer goods that invariably break down and depreciate through regular use (in fact, how they break down and even fall apart is one of the things folks tend to relish on the forums). Indeed, I've been wondering about this for a few years. I'd be curious to get your sense of what makes MIJ products, whether they're heritage brands like Studio D'Artisan & Fullcount or others like Iron Heart or Strike Gold, worth it. I wonder this, in particular, when most of these MIJ products cost $300-400+ to buy in the states from Selfedge or BiG or comparable amounts in British sterling from UK retailers like Rivet and Hide. I get the proprietary fabric arguments in some cases, but not when US brands like Leftfield are sourcing fabrics from Collect Mills or when 3sixteen is traveling to Kuroki to get custom fabrics built to spec. Moreover, I'm hesitant to believe that there's an across-the-board argument that the MIJ brands are better made or steeped in some grander amount of craftsmanship. Now, do the MIJ brands have an aura about them that the US brands don't? Sure. But I'm not sure how we could quantify that in terms of worth.

Edited by MileHighEvertonian
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I explained above why MIJ products are so expensive from Western storefronts. Taking everything into consideration, MIJ denim is the same price, if not substantially cheaper compared to quality US products (let's say 3sixteen). The price difference is purely a logistical one. The unfortunate thing is that people equate this high price that we pay over here to paying for a higher quality product than MIUSA brands, which most of the time is true, but it's not that simple. I think the thing that makes us stop and take a look at what the market is like in the US is the fact that we can get japanese products for cheaper. That's making brands like Left Field and 3sixteen seem 'not worth it' to them, while in reality they're priced accurately in the market for their quality.

Edited by mp201
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The question of "worth" is an inherently interesting one in a conversation about consumer goods that invariably break down and depreciate through regular use (in fact, how they break down and even fall apart is one of the things folks tend to relish on the forums). Indeed, I've been wondering about this for a few years. I'd be curious to get your sense of what makes MIJ products, whether they're heritage brands like Studio D'Artisan & Fullcount or others like Iron Heart or Strike Gold, worth it. I wonder this, in particular, when most of these MIJ products cost $300-400+ to buy in the states from Selfedge or BiG 

 

I don't think they're worth the $300+ asking price either.  The fact that they're MIJ doesn't automatically make them better, but the Japanese brands I have handled (Warehouse, Fullcount, Sugar Cane, RJB, and Oni) are better IMO when it comes to fabrics and hardware than the American brands I've handled.  For the American consumer, most of the Japanese brands can be bought straight from Japan for $220 or less.  That price IMO, is in line with the product you are getting, and the $220 and up being asked for most American made jeans isn't in line with what you're getting.  Value is subjective, and if someone thinks the price being asked for a pair of Made in the USA jeans is fair, I'm not going to try to convince them otherwise. 

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Was at the local nudie shop today to have my hems chain stitched but was told they didn't have the machinery to produce a original chainstitch.

But instead they could imitate a chainstitch with a different sewing machine.

Didn't know this was possible!

So how does the roping, durability differ from a original chain stitch and lock stitch?

Edited by Sigur Rós
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The actual chain stitch will be the same however the roping will be significantly less as the vintage machines pulled the material slightly whilst stitching which causes the pronounced roping

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So the jeans money has come through. I'm keeping an eye out for slim/straight cuts and am thinking about:

 

1. Fullcount 1109xx

2. Samurai 710xx

 

Are there any other notable jeans/cuts with a neat medium-heavyish fabric that i'd be dumb not to consider? I'm not really looking for anything above 20oz since I live in the desert but if something's really cool i might consider it.

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I just drew up a shortlist of slim-tapered models for another dude. There's obviously some variation in 'slim tapered', so take these with a grain of salt

 

ST-121x, Flat Head 3002, Studio D'Artisan SD-107, IH-666, The Strike Gold xx09 models, PBJ XX-011/12.

Edited by mp201
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So the jeans money has come through. I'm keeping an eye out for slim/straight cuts and am thinking about:

1. Fullcount 1109xx

2. Samurai 710xx

Are there any other notable jeans/cuts with a neat medium-heavyish fabric that i'd be dumb not to consider? I'm not really looking for anything above 20oz since I live in the desert but if something's really cool i might consider it.

Momotaro 02, 07 models

Skull 5507XX

Tender Co Type 129

Great for the dessert

Sugar Cane 2014 http://www.selfedge.com/sugar-cane-denim?product_id=1285

Edited by Sigur Rós
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Hey SUFU!  I have been trying to find some evo pictures of demin/wool blend jeans.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?  If so, please drop a link or two in your response. Thank you for your help.

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I'm trying to find measurements for the Flat Head 3002 model but the two sites I'm looking at have different measurements (sz 31/32). If anyone knows which site is more accurate, please let me know!


With that being said, anyone know why 2nd on Rakuten sells two seemingly same pairs of 3002 for different prices?


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Quick question of these jeans from Rodeo Bros at Rakuten:

 

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/auc-rodeo/item/oni-288-o/

 

Their description says the jeans are one wash, so do you think the measurements they provide are after the wash?  Do you think they are accurate for the most part?  I love the jeans but am confused on whether to go with 38 or 40 (I am generally a 38). 

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Check if BiG have them jeans and go from there.

Other wise go for the safer bet and get an size up and be prepared to wear a belt :P

I think most stores on Rakuten that sell globally don't accept returns for international orders.

Tried that....I can't seem to find model 288 on any site right now.  You're probably right about ordering the larger size.  I've burned myself a few times by ordering too small.  

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